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cfm and water lift

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rick007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rick007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: cfm and water lift
    Posted: 11/February/2008 at 9:29pm
i was talking to a dealer who sells and services ninja machines and he said that with a porty higher water lift was more important than cfm. what do you think ? i want to use a 360.                                                                      
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Superglide Ken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/February/2008 at 1:46am
For short hoses length up to 25 ft he is correct. Since most portables only produce 30 cfms of airflow under working conditions, it is better to concentrate on lift. However if you are going to run 50 to 200 ft of hose, that 30 cfm that series produces will not be adequete to move the air fast enough in the hose because of the increase volume of air that needs to be moved. At that point it is better to concentrate on cfm production.Lift goes down, but air movement goes up.

A 360 will work well with any 2, 3,or 4 vac portable. Series or parallel vac placement.
Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs.
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John L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/February/2008 at 12:33pm
200ft........LOL .... 50psi.....LOL
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splash_$$$_dash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote splash_$$$_dash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/February/2008 at 3:23pm
Ken what was your major in University?
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cmaster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/February/2008 at 1:00am
Abnormal Psych.....he was the class exampleLOL

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Superglide Ken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/February/2008 at 4:31am
Originally posted by splash_$$$_dash splash_$$$_dash wrote:

Ken what was your major in University?



Chemical Engineering
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FriendlyHammer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FriendlyHammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/February/2008 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by rick007 rick007 wrote:

i was talking to a dealer who sells and services ninja machines and he said that with a porty higher water lift was more important than cfm. what do you think ? i want to use a 360.                                                                      
 
Kenny is full of bull, again. The best machine always attempts to balance cfm and waterlift. Cfm gets the air out of the tank so that waterlift can take over. With vacuums in parallel, the air doesn't get out of the fast enough when cleaning most carpets. Therefore, a balanced machine will always be parallel, unless you're talking about a single motor or two 2-stage vacuums, perhaps.
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B Rice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B Rice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 3:29pm
If anyone has time...Need a quik post class on cfm/waterlift and parallel/series...
Thanks!!!
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B Rice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B Rice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 3:44pm
I've read a few other articles on the subjects, still don't completlly get it?
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Ed Valentine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Valentine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 4:40pm
Yes, so do I !!
 
 
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Superglide Ken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 4:42pm
Parallel is NOT always the way to go. The best way to measure vac motors is UNDER load, not NO Load conditions. You don't clean that way. you clean with the equivalent of a 3/4" opening. That produces approx a lift of 70"WL and 30 cfm from a single 3 stage vac motor with 25 ft of hose connected operating thru a wand cleaning on the carpet. If you were to run 2 of those vacs in parallel, you would NOT double your vacuums under those operating parameters. Your lift would only rise to 80"WL but your cfm would still be only about 40. Why? Because the resistance at the wand/carpet interface is so strong that without an increase in lift, not much additional air can make it thru there.

If instead the 2 vacuums are in series, the lift will rise to 130"WL, and CFM rises to 50 cfms. That is because the air pressure differential between the air outside the wand(atmospheric)and inside the wand is now greater, causing more air to enter the wand. The resistance at the WCI is the same, but the ability to overcome it has been increased.

So now you know why the Ninja is hooked up in series, not parallel. It works better. Century did extensive testing on both configurations before deciding and PROVING that series works best.
Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 5:49pm
Hmmmmmm... Thats Y i bought a TM...Nah,%20nah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FriendlyHammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 7:50pm
Kenny is smoking crack again. In a system that has 200 cfm, 30 cfm is only 15%. The waterlift is barely affected. In a series, the max cfm is 100 with no load. If you have 50 cfm leaking into the system, you've reduced your waterlift by about 50%. Hence the confusion on Kenny's part.
 
I have 3 of 13 machines that can be quickly confingured to be in parallel or series. I have yet to find a guy that wants to use their machine in anything but parallel. I leave that decision up to them. 
 
If they were using weaker motors, the situation might be different.


Edited by FriendlyHammer - 18/February/2008 at 7:51pm
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baires View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/February/2008 at 8:05pm
Ok, now we have a better idea about the cfm and water lift. So the question is what are the numbers that we need, to keep the balance betwen boths if you are planning to run a porty with 75 ft of 1 1/2" recovery hose to have the best performance posibble.
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