Recoiling over the Recoil

LOL. Some of your rationalizations for the poor design are borderline hilarious. You don't expect me to believe that hogwash, do you?

Again, you are wrong. That's not my business, despite your attempts to do things to attack me, you are failing miserably and it is becoming increasingly obvious that Mr Ed is pulling your strings.

alexanderS wrote: I believe the last time I was teased about my name was in the 8th grade! What is the matter with you? Is that all you can say? You are not getting anywhere on this forum or any other. There is no secret to my identity! I am not hiding my identity . You are!    TA152H . Actually the new Power Booster from Cross-American can be hooked up in series if one wishes to do that. It is very easy to do. Basically there is a 3 inch access  that takes a minute to remove then you attach a hose from the vacuum inlet to the exhaust of any kind of portable. 137 " H2O Lift. This could be beneficial for someone needing to do flood work. Especially if it is down in a basement. Perhaps in some situations it is more beneficial to get more lift that more CFM. So the CA Booster is both for inline and in series!

Jan,

Yes, I saw the booster had that feature, but the Mitey-One, or whatever it's called, that has the 100 PSI and can be used as an ultraportable or a booster, seems to have lost this feature, which is disappointing.  I'm going by the website when I say that.  Maybe you know more than this, having sold them.

LMAO! Grimel, you really took an a$$ whipping there.

TA152H wrote: Wow, you're really discrediting yourself.  Between this and your explanations for the Recoil, I'm realizing you have no sense at all.  Did you reread what you wrote?  Incredible poor rationalizations. But, let's go to this one.  You're a very, very confused man.  Sadly. There are two parts to this story, about Locko.  Try to process this information clearly, without pushing them together. Yes, Locko had a "technician" who didn't prime the pump for another machine.  This has nothing to do with the problem.  The problem was when Locko went to the Recoil, it failed miserably.

You have what is called a logical fallacy.  Had the Recoil didn't fail.  LOCKO failed.  Had he trained his techs properly there would have been NO problem.  Locko screwed up.  Then had them use a piece of equipment he has repeatedly posted has a problem (that's mistake number 2).  Then he posted the Recoil let him down.  LOCKO let Locko down.

You then extrapolated from that to say the machine was crippled, when there is no data supporting it.

Locko has REPEATEDLY said his Recoil wasn't right.

[quote]Now, let's go back to your point on small hoses.  I respect the fact you TRY to sound smart, but, sadly, lack the genetic gifts to pull it off.  Still, a fine effort.  As far as I can tell, you are saying that thinner hoses can offer more air watts, since lift goes up, or whatever.  Or you are indicating that he uses less power?  Either way, you're not looking deep enough.  Some vacs, including the 116765-13, use more power with .875 opening than a 2 inch opening.  So, restriction doesn't automatically mean less power use, but in this case probably does since the restriction is before the terminal point, although the amount would be insignificant.  Also, it's the terminal point that effects the lift.  If you have a restriction, then go wider, and try to lift from that new wider point, you'd have slightly worse characteristics across the board.  [/quote}

Have you ever looked at the performance curve for a vac motor?  Larry Cobb explained it repeatedly.  Sorry you missed the point.  The most efficient, thus most power comes from the highest product of the lift and flow.  That is NEVER at closed or full open.  For most of the vac motors I've been interested in buying the sweet spot is some where around 1.5".   So, if you want the most air watts (again, see what Larry Cobb has written about air watts) you need a restriction.  For the short length of hoses involved the distance between the motor and the tank is insignificant.

When you start to understand the difference between theoretical and real world design you might grasp what people have been trying to tell Locko (and RA) nicely for at least a couple of months.  The sad part is one of them posted the EXACT reason why the internal hoses don't need to be 2", yet, either they didn't read the posts or didn't understand the posts.

If you really believe what you are saying about vac motors you are with Locko in what you don't know being being more important than what you think you know.

grimel wrote: TA152H wrote: Wow, you're really discrediting yourself.  Between this and your explanations for the Recoil, I'm realizing you have no sense at all.  Did you reread what you wrote?  Incredible poor rationalizations. But, let's go to this one.  You're a very, very confused man.  Sadly. There are two parts to this story, about Locko.  Try to process this information clearly, without pushing them together. Yes, Locko had a "technician" who didn't prime the pump for another machine.  This has nothing to do with the problem.  The problem was when Locko went to the Recoil, it failed miserably. You have what is called a logical fallacy.  Had the Recoil didn't fail.  LOCKO failed.  Had he trained his techs properly there would have been NO problem.  Locko screwed up.  Then had them use a piece of equipment he has repeatedly posted has a problem (that's mistake number 2).  Then he posted the Recoil let him down.  LOCKO let Locko down. You then extrapolated from that to say the machine was crippled, when there is no data supporting it. Locko has REPEATEDLY said his Recoil wasn't right. [quote]Now, let's go back to your point on small hoses.  I respect the fact you TRY to sound smart, but, sadly, lack the genetic gifts to pull it off.  Still, a fine effort.  As far as I can tell, you are saying that thinner hoses can offer more air watts, since lift goes up, or whatever.  Or you are indicating that he uses less power?  Either way, you're not looking deep enough.  Some vacs, including the 116765-13, use more power with .875 opening than a 2 inch opening.  So, restriction doesn't automatically mean less power use, but in this case probably does since the restriction is before the terminal point, although the amount would be insignificant.  Also, it's the terminal point that effects the lift.  If you have a restriction, then go wider, and try to lift from that new wider point, you'd have slightly worse characteristics across the board.  [/quote} Have you ever looked at the performance curve for a vac motor?  Larry Cobb explained it repeatedly.  Sorry you missed the point.  The most efficient, thus most power comes from the highest product of the lift and flow.  That is NEVER at closed or full open.  For most of the vac motors I've been interested in buying the sweet spot is some where around 1.5".   So, if you want the most air watts (again, see what Larry Cobb has written about air watts) you need a restriction.  For the short length of hoses involved the distance between the motor and the tank is insignificant. When you start to understand the difference between theoretical and real world design you might grasp what people have been trying to tell Locko (and RA) nicely for at least a couple of months.  The sad part is one of them posted the EXACT reason why the internal hoses don't need to be 2", yet, either they didn't read the posts or didn't understand the posts. If you really believe what you are saying about vac motors you are with Locko in what you don't know being being more important than what you think you know.

Grimel, I sense you're not smart enough to understand stuff this complicated, but I'm really going to try to get this across to you, because I think once you get it, you'll repeat it and hopefully educate other people.

You make a mistake that's easy to make, probably because you're repeating what you heard, and not really understanding it.  So, let's get you to really understand it.  

I mentioned it in my original post, but I'll go into more detail, which hopefully will make more sense.  I probably should have in the first place.

OK, what you're not understanding is the difference between a restriction at the terminal point, and a restriction at an intermediate point.  I hope I can explain this properly.  But, let's say you took the air watts at the 1.5 inch pipe end.  You'd have more air watts, if you just left it open in the air.  Your CFM would be lower, but your lift would go up.  Overall, more air watts, on every vac motor I've seen.  But, that's not where it matters.  You're not pulling up water there.  Instead, we attach to a 2 inch hose, and then to the wand.  Now, if we were to take the reading at the end of the 2 inch hose, after the 1.5 inch hose, you'd actually have low lift there, and higher CFM, like a 2 inch hose.  The difference is, you'd be lower on both than a pure 2 inch line, because you have more loss in the hose.  The benefit to lift on partial restriction is at the terminal end, not an intermediate stage which only weakens the suction.  

Now, if this is still too complicated for you, let's picture it with a simple vacuum cleaner line.  Let's say I have a big opening with full air flow.  I can't pick up much.  For example, picture trying to pick up an 8" diameter heavy ball with a flat headed vac hose, (i.e. the typical hose we use).  Because you have so much airflow from the sides (since the ball is round, and the head is flat), it can't really pick it up effectively.  Now, let's say we shape the end of the hose to conform to the curve of the ball, and lessen or stop the air flow, and create a seal.  Now, it can pick up the ball.  Notice, this is the terminal of our vacuum system.  Now, let's try this same thing, and pinch the hose in the middle, so its only got half the air flow.  You can't pick up as heavy a ball.  So, intermediate restrictions do not help at all, they only hurt.

Your remarks about Locko, etc..., are uninformed.  Whatever was going on with his other machine is non-sequitur, we're talking about the Recoil only.  He had a hole in the side, which was fixed.  The other problems you're bringing up aren't clear, but at any rate, Rob said he'd pay to have someone ship a Recoil to him for testing, and no one did.  This offer extended to Ed V. himself.  Ed would have done so if he felt Locko's machine was not performing as designed.  After all, it was free of charge.  

"Grutzy...or Alex;