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Recoiling over the Recoil

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Soil Lint Green View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soil Lint Green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/August/2010 at 11:15pm
To be honest, there is a growing prejudice among truckmount cleaners who feel threatened by competition running portables and higher profits as a result.  Go to a forum with a more level playing field and you hear nothing but praise for Ed's machines.

It's like asking Republicans what they think of Obama or Democrats what they think of Bush Jr.  Can you say Bias?  I knew you could.
It's ORY GUN, not OR A GONE. Learn to talk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCandmore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2010 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Grutzy Grutzy wrote:

His customer service may be good but that Recoil machine has lots of issues. If you don't believe me, go on over to the reviews at truckmountforum.com. It is nowhere near as well built or advanced as a Mytee M5.
 
Bullsh*t. I think the people who conducted those tests were honest and without any hidden agendas but those tests were done using a machine that was damaged in shipping then repaired. When they test with a machine that is for sure in proper order the cfm and lift results may or may not be the same (probably not) but who cares? The bottom line is people who purchase or use Recoils speak very highly of the machine and Ed Valentine. It's a powerful portable with a balance of cfm and lift that allows cleaning at longer hose runs. I use mine at 50' and 100'. Others go farther. If that is not what you are looking for then buy something else; no one machine fits everyone's needs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alexanderS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2010 at 7:29pm
The TMF has a problem! There are a lot of Recoil 3XPS fans.
Cross-American has earned their good reputation! There
are a few who like to just stir things up! Some of them are
so called important people. Some are actually fictitious who
post a name and do not have a real profile on record. So
they say whatever they want. We caught one though and
that was quite satasfying I must say!
The proof is in the customers who have purchaced products
from Ed Valentine. 99% are very happy!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2010 at 8:18pm
The fact is the machine is built very poorly and has archaic design and engineering. I agree that one can achieve good cleaning power out of a portable but there are far better foundations than the Recoil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCandmore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2010 at 9:13pm
Ever owned a Recoil XPS, Grutzy? If not, on what do you base your statements? In my opinion, based on owning and operating 2 Recoils as well as a Hydramaster CDS, the Recoils do not have the modern appearance of some other models but they are built for performance, dependability, and versatility. I've used the Recoil with a short 25' hose and it worked great but I would have also been happy with other good portables at that distance. When you need 50', 100', or more vac hose then the Recoil really outpaces the competition. Also, the Recoil doesn't blow circuit breakers which can be very important, depending on where you live and work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soil Lint Green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2010 at 10:46pm
Grunt, what do you use to clean carpet?  Some gas guzzling gross polluter or a rental rug doctor?  Not sure why you try to talk crap about the best unit on the market but your colors are starting to show real fast.
It's ORY GUN, not OR A GONE. Learn to talk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Valentine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2010 at 8:42am
Gentlemen;
 
We all realize that no one (even this person hiding behind the name of; Grutzy, can ever satisfy everyone. Especially when you have thousands of customers as we have come in contact with over the past 34 years. But his comments reflex the BS we have heard from a few "lapdogs" with a common adjenda.)
 
Thought this was one of the 'to the point" comments regarding these guys and their so called "testing" recently. Mr. Mike Charles couldn't have stated it better:
 
 
 Today on US bb at 03:34:23 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote

 "It's apparent that Ed's "detractors" that love to run down his equipment, all with the stated purpose of only "educating" their lapdogs, while professing that liars, cheats and hucksters will be stoned by the angry mob, have in fact been leading the sheep to the slaughter since the illegal glide maker has now come out with an "improved" portable.

And tried to test a 7 year old CA unit and pass it off as a new model..

Liars, cheats and hucksters, huh?

From the same gang that brought out the Chinese made AX clone when the patent expired on the original...only to not have to recall it and refund the purchase price once due to bad parts..but twice..and then can the project.

Keep on doing what you're doing Ed...imitation is the sincerest form of flattery..."
 
Mike Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2010 at 1:44am
Originally posted by Soil Lint Green Soil Lint Green wrote:

what do you use to clean carpet?  Some gas guzzling gross polluter.
Thats what i use. Pimpin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCandmore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2010 at 2:19am
I have both Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2010 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Soil Lint Green Soil Lint Green wrote:

Grunt, what do you use to clean carpet?  Some gas guzzling gross polluter or a rental rug doctor?  Not sure why you try to talk crap about the best unit on the market but your colors are starting to show real fast.
 
LOL!
 "........best unit on the market". You must be Ed Valentine's son or nephew........daughter.........son in law?
 
The Recoil doesn't even allow you to empty the waste tank completely because the dump valve is higher than the waste tank floor. Give me a break. It has an external hose that could easily get ripped off on a door frame. The body is too weak and thin. All its vac motors are in parallel which is good for cfm but the machine lacks water lift as a result. The lids don't even seal like a modern machine, especially important on the waste tank side where vacuum could be leaking. Where's the lid gasket? It doesn't have a water pressure gauge. The handle in the back is flimsy and is bolted on below the water line, which can cause a serious problem (poor engineering). The internal vacuum motors are from Home Depot and are only 1.5" pool vac hoses, adding restricition to potential vacuum power. The hoses are also arranged in a way that is sloppy and not consistent with good flow characteristics.
 
Did I forget something?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TA152H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2010 at 10:43pm

Originally posted by Soil Lint Green Soil Lint Green wrote:

Grunt, what do you use to clean carpet?  Some gas guzzling gross polluter or a rental rug doctor?  Not sure why you try to talk crap about the best unit on the market but your colors are starting to show real fast.

Remarks like that are just ignorant.  

If you use electricity, do you know where that comes from?  I'll give you a hint, it's not free of pollutants either.

It's interesting, and funny, to see being self-righteous about not having a truck mount.  Most people would prefer one, except for the price which they can not afford.  Portables are certainly useful, and advantageous in many situations, so I'm not knocking them.  

Furthermore, emission of carbon dioxide are VERY green, not the reverse.  The uneducated somehow frame these emissions differently, but, as anyone should know, plants LOVE carbon dioxide.  They grow faster, by a lot, and produce more food with more in the environment.  So, there's a negative feedback loop with carbon dioxide.  The more you pump into the air, the faster it is removed, so it won't increase forever unless we kill plants and don't give them a chance to do what they want.

More to the point, there are a bunch of CA groupies who love to say how wonderful this machine is, but, in reality, it's been tested, and found wanting.  It's poorly constructed (so much so that one of the owners had to change his vacs back to stock, because the body was flexing too much when he upgraded the motors, and he was afraid it would break), and has many ergonomic flaws as indicated in the testing done on TruckMountForums.  I didn't agree with all of the criticisms, but, most are irrefutable. 

You'll also notice how this group loves to deal in generalities, instead of producing hard numbers which would back up their claims of how powerful this machine is.  You'll get so and so saying this, bold claims of being in business for so many years, claims of envy from others, but no facts.  They deal in smoke and mirrors, and avoid cold, hard facts that would quantify the performance.  Try getting a number from them, like CFM, or lift, and you'll get fluff, distortion, and obfuscation.  You'll get an anecdote, possibly real, from someone.  You won't get numbers.  

Performance IS quantifiable.  It's not like arguing which girl is prettier, or which peach tastes better.  But, when tested, the Recoil showed poor performance.  So, they say it was a bum machine.  So the forum owner offered to pay for anyone to ship their machine to him for testing, including Mr. Valentine, to show the performance.  Of course, nothing came of it.  They know the performance is bad, and would prefer to say something is wrong with the machine.   If they send another machine, people will realize the machine isn't a good performer, by design.

This is not to say it can't clean a carpet, just there are cheaper choices (M5) that are better.

Now, Ed Valentine and I argue often, but to say he wouldn't properly support his machine sounds pretty foolish.  If he had something I wanted(his booster is certainly an attractive product), I'd have no fear of purchasing something from him.  From these rabid groupies, you can safely say his customer service should not be brought into question.

The Recoil, on the other hand ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2010 at 8:01am
Mr Valentine, do me a favor and build a modern machine before you go calling me a "lap dog". You can't expect to build a business and continue to flourish based on sending in some of your pawns to spew a bunch of lies on your behalf, all over the internet. The Recoil is not horrible, it's just not good and certainly not a great machine like you keep trying to project it to be. Improve the thing and I will be the first to commend it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alexanderS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2010 at 12:23pm
Grutzy, you obviously have never operated a Recoil 3XPS!   The owners and operators continue to say the Recoil 3 is a great machine to use and operate.
I have been working with Ed Valentine for many years . I have done quite a bit
of experienting with different vacuum configurations and for one thing the waste tank
has never had a lot of flexing or problems. I have never heard of one being damaged
by too much vacuum.
I changed the 2 3 stages out for 2 617 air watt vacuum motors and left the
2 stage booster in place. I used it to clean a couple areas in my home and had
no problem with the waste tank flexing as you have indicated from hear say.I
also empied our swimming pool out with it in this configuration                                     I
 I  eventually took one of the new motors out and put the stock motor back for
amperage reasons. I then sold it and  he is doing well with it. He was
pleased with the performance and ease of use the last time I talked to him.
 
He has his reason for putting the dump valve above the bottom level. The water
acts as a filter and helps keep the vac motors clean. There is another screen filter
for each vac motor. People often wonder why vacuum motors last so long in the
Recoil 3s. Well that is one reason. Centrifigul vacuum motors will not tolerate
dirt or foam or any other contaminants hence the disign of waste tank. It does have
a clean out on the bottom right side to flush whatever it remaining at the end of the
day.
Finally then is the Recoil 3XPS a perfect machine? No it is not! But it continues to get
improvements on a regular basis. Many things that no one really thinks of to help it
work better and last longer.He has not gone over to the newer brand vac motors because quite frankly there are a lot of questions about reliability and short life!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2010 at 6:27pm
Good god, I have come to expect tall tales coming from the Coil crowd but this one takes the cake. You seem to be a friendly guy, Alexander so I will be respectful but what do you mean that the bottom water works as a filter? Do you mean it is above the soil particles and thus keeps them from being sucked through the vac motors when the machine is initially turned on? If so, I contend that this water accumulation does not allow the machine to be cleaned out properly and thus would tend to collect more soil and sand at the bottom than if the drain allowed complete removal of waste water. Secondly, I would rather be able to clean the tank out after every job as I do with my machine. The idea of stagnating waste water is hardly desirable.
I realize that the machine has a drain hole on the side but even that is designed in a very primitive way. I also do not like the design of the bottom of the machine being mounted to the top section via screws. Screws into plastic will only last a very short time before the plastic strips out. Some quick lock and release mechanisms would be more appropriate for a machine built in the last 50 years.
If Mr Valentine would like me to be instrumental in a complete redesign and overhaul of the machine, I would be glad to help, assuming that I would receive a new unit once the redesign is complete.  
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