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Recoil3 problem |
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Ed Valentine 
Carpet Cleaning Specialist 
Joined: 14/September/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 770 |
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 Posted: 12/May/2008 at 9:25am |
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Barry;
I have responded in length to your "private" e-mail just prior to this writing regarding your situation. Personally, I am alittle taken aback, sir. Since you have made your situation public (which is fine with me now, than why don't I make my response public as well. Because I do not think it is fair for these situations to always be "one-sided" while the manufacturer has to stand back and take the blows). And, you know that you have stated to me in prior e-mails that I have at hand, that "you like the machine, but............................." (the foam).
Hummm.
Here was my response:
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Barry;
I have been building these system for over 30 years now and know them pretty darn well by now, and I can tell you that there is nothing wrong with that particular machine, nor did I sell you (in your words) "a piece of junk". The amount of time and effort that goes into each and every machine we make for our customers like you, would be un-heard of in this Industry, period.
In fact, you have the newer more heavy-duty industrial system that will produce terrific results when operated properly. In fact, I consistently receive very positive testimonials on its operation and the way it is built and designed by its Operators.
When you first called complaining about "water" dripping from the exhaust on one pipe, I immediately mention that it was really condensed "foam" and suggested using an anti-foaming product. (In fact, this is also indicated within your manuel.) However, We went back and forth on this issue until you had a special defoamer device installed on the vacuum inlet that solved this problem (thus backed my origional statement) as you had indicated to me both by email message and a phone call.
If you recall, I had also mentioned that there are differences in defoamer products--as there are with most all products. Some are less concentrated than others. I suggest trying our brand STOP defoamer. In fact, our STOP defoamer can also be put in the solution tank and will kill the foam at the carpet way before it gets back into the recovery tank-----and into the stack pipes.
It's alot MORE concentrated and doesn't cost as much as most others. However, please make note here that YOU will have to test it by experimenting with the correct dilution ratios for that particular injection device you had purchased.
I had also another variable: The particular cleaning agent you are using. It has proven to me that it is extremely foamy, and therefore, requires a defoamer product to help calm it down.
In conclusion, I can not convince you that our products are very well made by our company that has over 30 years of proven history, nor can I convince you of my personal knowledge (37 years plus) as well. Only you have control of that opinion. However, we have immediately responded to each and every reasonable request you have made thus far. In fact, even sent you a new Flo-Thru vacuum lid that we felt would "help" eliminate your foaming problem.
But allow me to make one thing clear; our committment will remain the same. I will personally "try my very best" to help you and educate you in regards to your situation---------if I can and if that is possible.
Always, The very best to you, sir;
Ed Valentine
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Now, I am not going to post endless tesimonials from the staisfied Operators of the exact SAME system you have here because I think that might be boring and only appear as a sales pitch. HOWEVER, please note, that if anyone out there believes otherwise, please call me personally, and or, we would be more than glad to forward these as proof.
In conclusion, I don't think it is appropriate to insinuate that we have "faulty products" because that would not be truthful and would only indicate a rediculous opinion.
The very best to ALL;
Ed Valentine
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Laserman
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Joined: 01/March/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 13/May/2008 at 9:45pm |
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Well,
I've tried several Defoamers and several different cleaning solutions and the problem still persist. |
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John L
Carpet Cleaning Guru 
Joined: 29/November/2004 Location: I'm Right Here! Status: Offline Points: 4013 |
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Posted: 13/May/2008 at 10:32pm |
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Somethings fishy here.. If all connections are tight and sealed then it would be the chemicals or customers spilling shampoo somewhere.. Your running Ametek lamb vacs.. Is there something you might have missed?
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FriendlyHammer
Master Carpet Cleaner 
Joined: 08/July/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
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Posted: 14/May/2008 at 12:22am |
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I've got the same problem with several machines (castex, mytee, ect). The issue is always the valve. Be it a float valve or ball valve, it needs to be adjusted to be more sensitive. In a high cfm machine the vacuums can suck off the surface of the water before the valve kicks in. I'm constanly tweeking those things because of the same problem.
It's a fact of life.
Edited by FriendlyHammer - 14/May/2008 at 12:24am |
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Ken Harris Nov 08:
"This will cause oil to rise to near $100 by the end of November. It stays up there to about the end of February. Better save this so you know who told it to you first." |
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Laserman
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Joined: 01/March/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 17/May/2008 at 9:33pm |
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Hammer,
How I can I adjust my Recoil to stop this problem? Maybe that's the problem. Ed says it's a foam problem and he surely knows more than I do , but it does the same thing when I clean tile and rinse with just water. Other than this problem the Recoil works just great. I hate seeing water/foam leak out of the exhaust cause I fear I will ruin the vac motors. Barry |
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FriendlyHammer
Master Carpet Cleaner
Joined: 08/July/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
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Posted: 18/May/2008 at 2:14am |
The float valve is easy, and the ball valve is a litte more tricky.
On the float valve, you simply bend the arm of the float so that it is lower (closer to the dirty water). The collar of the float valve (the ring that holds it to the pipe) can also sometimes act like a straw and pull water between the collar and the pipe, so that will need to be checked and sealed with some kind of removable goo of some sort. However, lowering the float enough can keep the water below the collar, too. I don't see float valves around as much as I used to, but I prefer them.
On the ball valve, you first have to make sure the cage is totally clean and that the ball has no water in it. If it has water in it, that will explain why it doesn't close sooner (it will have to be replaced). However, if everything is fine, you can wrap a piece of electrical tape near the top of the cage (on the wire mesh near the opening) so that the valve is more sensitive (the air intake is closer to the ball). It will take some experimentation to figure out just how much is needed.
Also, if you move a machine around when it is almost full, water will get around the valve just before the valve closes. There's really nothing that can be done about that, except to stop moving the machine when it's almost full. Everyone has that problem.
Finally, you can test the tank by filling it up with water and making sure the valve is closed while the machine is on and the tank lid is closed. If water keeps coming out of the bottom, the water is leaking around some hole in the tank somewhere. This is unlikely because the dirt would easily fill such a hole and make any leak stop or be unnoticeable. But remember, if you have a float valve, the collar can act like a straw in this situation, so you will have to follow my instructions above in this situation. Edited by FriendlyHammer - 18/May/2008 at 2:29am |
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Ken Harris Nov 08:
"This will cause oil to rise to near $100 by the end of November. It stays up there to about the end of February. Better save this so you know who told it to you first." |
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FriendlyHammer
Master Carpet Cleaner
Joined: 08/July/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
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Posted: 18/May/2008 at 2:26am |
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One more thing. I haven't seen the inside of a Recoil, but I have a problem with Mytee machines that sounds like the problem you have having. In the bigger Mytee machines, there a rubber thing just inside the tank where the water comes in. It is supposed to direct water downward, but it tends to get turned once in a while and gets directed at the ball valve. When this happens, the incoming water forces the ball downward while going directly into the vac pipe (yikes!). I've walked into rooms that my guys are cleaing and seen pools of water 4 feet wide!
So you may want to check other things that might have gotten moved around. Edited by FriendlyHammer - 18/May/2008 at 2:28am |
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Ken Harris Nov 08:
"This will cause oil to rise to near $100 by the end of November. It stays up there to about the end of February. Better save this so you know who told it to you first." |
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Just Ol' Willy
Senior Member 
Joined: 20/April/2007 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Posted: 22/May/2008 at 9:33am |
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Two other things to check for- see that the boot is fully tightened as well as the drain valve. Clean out the waste tank and silicone or goop the area around the bottom of the stacks. I'm coming up to 2 years using my Recoil and have had little in the way of grief. Good luck!
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duckcountry
Master Carpet Cleaner
Joined: 29/October/2005 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1082 |
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Posted: 22/May/2008 at 1:21pm |
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While pouring in a defoamer may be costly (not that much though) and time consuming and one more thing to remember, considering the costly damage from not doing it should convince someone. Don't be chincy on the defoamer.
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Are you in a high paying business or are you just a self employed low paid grunt who thinks this business provides dignity?
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Just Ol' Willy
Senior Member
Joined: 20/April/2007 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Posted: 22/May/2008 at 6:06pm |
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I've thought about this all day.Is your deflector turned downward? Mine gets tossed in and out of a truck all day, and one time I chafed a small pinhole in the rubber drainage boot on the side- check to see if your getting any air in there or just call me. I'll pm you my number.
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Ed Valentine
Carpet Cleaning Specialist
Joined: 14/September/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 770 |
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Posted: 23/May/2008 at 10:01am |
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Thanks to all , for the great ideas and help above to laserman (Barry).
His problem from day one was: Foaming.
He called me approx 5-6 weeks ago, and told me "Problem solved".
He had a special defoamer device installled on the vacuum port inlet of his machine and told me that he placed a pail behind the vacuum exhaust so that he could run a test and see if any foam was being blown out. He checked this about every 5 mins just to make sure [!!] when he was using the machine on the job site. And, he found that ---not one drop---of foam was being blown out. "Problem solved"!!! Now, he stated that he was happy.
3-4 weeks later he called me and stated that the defoamer was too expensive and he was going broke buying it from his Supplier. I mentioned to him that I did not sell him the defoamer; there are different concentrations of defoamers; and so on.
Now if the machine (in his words, written on May 13th btw) "I've said it before, I know the machine is AWESOME, cleans great, dries fast, etc..if I could just solve this problem".,
His problem is FOAM from carpets and/or hard floor cleaning.
Don't know unfortunately, what to do beyond the efforts we have put into this situation. Sent him a new air-deflector/ CFM lid also, to no avail.
The very best to all and especially to Barry. I hope he solves his problem but his problem is not with his machine or how it was built.
Ed Valentine
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CCandmore
Senior Member
Joined: 07/December/2006 Location: Virginia, USA Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Posted: 23/May/2008 at 12:56pm |
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Ed, is defoamer usually needed with the Recoil or does it depend on the chems used?
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Ed Valentine
Carpet Cleaning Specialist
Joined: 14/September/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 770 |
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Posted: 23/May/2008 at 1:19pm |
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CCandmore;
Any true air-flow; high-velocity CFM system is going to naturally--mix Air with Water, and the residues that it recovers--and therefore, it sometimes may have more of a tendency to cause these incoming residues/soaps to form as foam and rinse above the level of the water recovered. And since foam is a lot lighter than water and because of the extremely air-flow in the recovery tank, it could be more of a common senerio under certain and particular situations and thus vacuumed thru the vacuum motors. (But, not always, btw)
HOWEVER, this is dependent largely upon the particular cleaning agents being used, as you had allutted to, or what was already left behind in the carpet fibers. And, this will largely be dependent on whether the Operator is required to use defoamer, or not. (Keeping in mind that not all defoamers are the same based on quality concentrations, etc..)
Keep in mind that cleaning deep into the carpet fibers and achieving total and through extraction (hopefully) is everyones goal. At least it should be in this business! Therefore, on less efficient machines, or those generic machines with less vacuum are less prevelant at times to capture the amount of residue(s) that a true High-Performance system would.
I also believe that we must keep in mind that foaming is not only created from SOAP left in carpets but also we must consider this same problem (if we let it become one, btw...) whenever we clean a hard floor. The incoming water will really Slam into that recovery tank and must be calmed down at times with a good grade defoamer.
Hope that helps answer your question.
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.
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Just Ol' Willy
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Joined: 20/April/2007 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Posted: 23/May/2008 at 1:53pm |
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Uncle Willy's cheapo tip of the day_ Buy some cheap sponges from the dollar store, cut them in smaller sizes.. Soak some defoamer into them and run through the vac hose. It gives the hose a coat and lasts in the tank, as long as you don't toss it with the waste water when you drain, for a fair while.
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