wands again..
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Category: Carpet Cleaners Discussion
Forum Name: Carpet Cleaners Hangout
Forum Description: General discussion on anything related to carpet cleaning
URL: https://www.kleenkuip.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=863
Printed Date: 14/May/2024 at 9:44am
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Topic: wands again..
Posted By: Dakota
Subject: wands again..
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:38pm
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In your opinions, what brand of wand has the best dry time without glides on them? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Replies:
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:46pm
One that is self propelled? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:48pm
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I think drying times have alot of things to factor in...not just wand it self there is psi....heat...type of soap....rinse....etc etc ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:51pm
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Mr. Steamer: Don't forget the operator. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:52pm
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yes the angle at which you hold the wand plays a big part ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:55pm
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One size does not work for all!!!!!!!!!! But one size is made for all? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:56pm
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Yes that all plays a part in the dry time but there are also some wands that dry's better than others pro-chem, butler, blue line, titanium, etc.. ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 5:57pm
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So you should get yours custom made ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 6:00pm
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I prefer the 4 jet 2" Pro chem wand. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 6:04pm
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I have the 3 jet 2" Pro Chem wand... but I like the heavy old cleanco wand 3 jet 1.5" they all seem to work the same to me
------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 6:05pm
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there is a lot of good things about the titanium, but does the dry time differ in any wands? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 6:13pm
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I think it also has to do with the machine behind the wand ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 7:19pm
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No wand dries carpet fast without a Superglide type glide on it, but if I had to name just one, I would say that would be the Quad-jet wand by prochem. The wider lips on it allows more air to enter the wand.
------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 9:46pm
Mr. Steamer: Your dry times should be less with the 2" wand? ------------- Just My opinion |
MR. STEAMER wrote:Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 11:34pm
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Dry time is mainly a function of how much water you leave in the carpet after cleaning it and how much water gets into the carpet backing where it is hard to recover it. How much you can pull out of the carpet is a function of how much airflow you can move thru the wand lips to pick up the water/soil mix and carry it away. How much airflow you are able to move thru the lips while you are cleaning is a function of how much of a lock the lips have on the carpet, blocking flow, and how much lift you have at the lips causing airflow to overcome the restriction. to improve on flow, and prevent the lock from impeding air movement, you need a glide. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 11:38pm
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SGK: There will be less air going threw a 1.5" wand than a 2". Is that not one of the reasons for the tiwand success? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 12:24am
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It is if you got a 400 cfm blower like comes with the 405 machine, but not as much as you might think. Here is why in a nutshell:
The lips on the Quadjet wand on damp 40 oz presprayed carpet, with 12"HG set at the machine with 100 ft of vac hose one will flow only about 110 cfm maximum. Change the wand to a PMF 802 wand with it's smaller 1.5" tube and connect it instead to the same machine, and you still will have close to 100 cfm going thru it. No more than a 10 cfm decrease or 9%. The reason that it is not more, has to do with the flow capacity of the rest of the vac system. The Tank and elbows from the blower to the 2 hose connector lose you almost 100 cfm from the 400 the blower can produce. The 2" vac hose can handle 500 cfm going thru it, so the 300 cfm potential you got left is no problem. The 2" tube on the Quadjet can handle the same with very little restriction as well. But the 1.4" ID of a regular 802 wand can handle 200+ cfm no problem. But you only are letting 100 cfms into the wand at the lips due to the lock the wands steel lips have with the carpet. So in essence, the tube diameter is not what is holding you back in terms of airflow. Until you get at least 200 cfm coming into the lips of either wand, the tube diameter really does not slow the flow. A glide that allows you to get 200 cfms coming in is the only practical way to increase your airflow performance in a meaningful way. When you got the air coming in at that rate, then the 2" tubed wand can help you.
The Ti wand with the Superglide on it allows 200 to 250 cfms of flow. The 2" tube matters there. But without the Superglide glide on it, even that wand will not flow over 130 cfm, and does not get much from the 2" tube as you might expect. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:35am
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SGK: for a short time I used a 1.5" wamd a 1.5 whwip hose. I for sure left carpets wetter with that combo. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 3:47pm
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There was 2 reasons why that was true doug, and both of them would matter more than the tube diameter of the wand you might be using.
The first is the size(width) of the lips on the wand. The lips on the PROCHEM Quad are much wider than the press on lips the 1.5" tubed wands come with. This means that you get less lockdown on the carpet and more airflow going in. The PMF 802 without a glide on it only flows about 80 to 90 cfms on the carpet. Compare that to the 110 cfms your current wand does, and you can understand why it leaves carpets drier.
The second thing that causes a difference is the LENGTH of the whip hose you use leading up to the wand. If you have 25 ft of it attached to the wand, that is very restictive to flow. I use only and 8 ft whip hose if I am using a 1.5" tubed wand(not very often). Not much more restriction that way. My current wand I use(the Titanium KH3) uses 1.75" tubing and will take either size hose, but will only deliver the 250 to 300 cfm it is capable when direct connected to 2" hose. With a whip hose connected, it operaters in the 200 to 250 cfm range. When you have this much flow happening at the wand, the diameter of your hose connection is very important to determining your airflow. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 3:59pm
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I want to get a 4in. wand LOL ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 4:51pm
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Dakota: You can! Most long handle stair tools will give you that. Most will have 6" wide heads on them, but a few still are only 4" across. lol ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 5:02pm
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I still like the Pro Chem 4 jet wand. It just feels balanced and comfortable to use for a old short guy likw me. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: danmarck82
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 5:17pm
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Ken, Have you ever tested the Butler wand? for cfm's of air flow.
It has that perforated lip on one of the sides to allow air to pass by. I would be real interested as to your findings. thanks. |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 5:29pm
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Nobody has them out here in Western Canada, so I have not had the oportunity, yet. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:14pm
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I don't think anyone owns a Butler around here either. I haven't seen one anyway. At least not in the last few years. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:20pm
you guys are missing out.. ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:26pm
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Story of my life. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:44pm
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Ken, I think you need to get a butler wand and see if you can make a glide for it. ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:51pm
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I could and I will make a glide for that wand. I am buying a Butler TM next year so that I can make a Power-Dri system for it. I will make one then from the wand that comes with it. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:54pm
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SGK: There has to be a cheaper way to get a Butler wand????? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:57pm
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When it comes to butler there is nothing that that is cheap. ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 6:59pm
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LOL. Yeah, I could get own for a couple of hundred dollars,Doug, but then the Power-Dri cooling tank might not fit right? ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:07pm
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SGK: Will Butler not have something to say regarding modifying their golden units? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:12pm
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Yeah, but since there is no patent on adding an exhaust cooler to the blower of their units, all they will be able to say is" We would like to take 100, please!" ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:16pm
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SGK: Applying this to a new Butler. would not void the warranty? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:22pm
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It might. In that case I would be only selling to owners of 5 year old machines. But these units will be in enough demand that they will want to control the new machine sales themselves. After all, the backpressure on the blowers is only raised by 1 PSI. That is not enough to shorten the life of any blower. It be installed so 2 psi is the total backpressure on the system in total. Many other units have that much without the Power-Dri attached. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:26pm
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Maybe Butler will make an option for new machines. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:28pm
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What are you going to be adding on to the butler? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:28pm
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Just like their high heat option. I am counting on that happening Doug. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:29pm
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SGK: What is the high heat option? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:33pm
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How much hotter can you make it? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:40pm
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Another of my inventions Doug first copied by White Magic, and now modified again and installed on Butlers. It is a heat exchanger that takes heat brom the vacuum blower and uses that heat to raise the water temp of your solution water from 200 degrees up to 240 degrees without the need to burn additional fuel. I told White Magic about it back in 1998 at the Orlando ASCR show cause I wanted to sell it to them. They called their version of it the Vulcan system. Now even Cleanco has put a simular system on their truckmounts they call PTI(Post Thermal Increase). When I told Cleanco about this system back in 1997, they told me it would not work too. Now they got it. Ken has been getting the shaft for a while now. I'm almost luving it. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:41pm
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How hot is hot? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:42pm
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240 degrees. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:42pm
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so if my butler right now is around 215-225 degrees, how much hotter would that bring it up? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:45pm
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SGK: My 405's operate at that now+. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:49pm
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Doug: The rest of the industry is just catching up. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 7:52pm
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What is the hottest you dare run with out melting something or killing the grass with the hose, etc. etc. ? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 9:30pm
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I leave my thermostat set at what ever it was preset for 240 I think. Unless I am clean ing wool. The heat at the machine is not the heat you are cleaning with at the wand. You can kill grass with warm water. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 11/December/2004 at 11:00pm
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I understand that part, but if you are at 240 degrees at the van can you still unhook your couplings with your bare hands or doesnt that part make a big difference? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 8:05am
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You cool the machine down first. You do that at the end of every job. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 12:26pm
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You get used to hot solution hoses and couplings after a while.
I just wrap up the vac hose first I usually run at 250 and higher at the machine(I clean alot of nasty carpet) |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 1:46pm
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If you dont unhook the solution line till after the job is done, you must not pre-spray with a hydro-force? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 2:00pm
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Dakota: You cann't unhook your solution line while you are working. Did you read your question? You start wit the hydro force and end with a wand or what ever tool you happen toi have in the end of the hose. Do you rollup your hydro force sprayer with your solution hose at the end of the job? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 2:48pm
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it's kind of like being a dish washer at a restaurant
your hands get callouses (sp?) and you get used to it |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 3:42pm
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you cant spray your whole job at once
------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 3:47pm
Dakota: Do you run 2 solutions lines from your unit? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 4:29pm
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No i unhook it from my wand............ dont you? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 4:35pm
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i know you get used to the temp, but if you look back at my first posts i was just asking if there is a big difference between 220 degrees and 240 degrees when you touch the couplings with your bare hands i was just asking a question. ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 6:49pm
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Either temp is going to burn your hands. That is why you wear gloves. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 8:15pm
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your not suposed to hold on to it.
------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 12/December/2004 at 9:48pm
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Dakota: A wand is a wand ia a wand? Hot or cold? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 1:43am
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I thought we were on the subject of hot water, not a wand? ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 2:48am
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what I'm saying is I've gotten used to HOT QD's.
yes the difference between 220 and 240 is reasonably drastic,but as I mentioned earlier,I run at 250 and higher quite often,I've also learned to be REAL quick with the quick connectors lol |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 7:43am
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After a short time you learn how not to get burned? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 2:14pm
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This is the reason that I carry a small terry cloth towel in my back pocket when I clean. It is good for swiping my forehead off when I sweat, and it comes in handly for disconecting QD's. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 2:46pm
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A whole lot of warantee's being voided.... No one should really be cleaning with more than 190' ........ you guys are lucky you don't have winter and cold... it all depends on the weather.. if its cold my pressure hose gets brought in last and wrapped up first... steam doesn't take long to freeze... if it does freeze stick it in the bath tub of laundry tub... in the summer I let the hose cool down while I wrap everything else up ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 3:01pm
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I talked to a guy the other day that put some kind of open valve on the end of his solution line, so when it is cold out he runs his hose in the house first into the tub or sink and lets the water run through and warm up while he is setting everything else up. I guess its an idea if you are worried about the line freezing... ------------- Life is Tuff, It is even Tougher if you're Stupid "John Wayne" |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 4:57pm
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Mr. Steamer: Tell me who gets 190 degrees at the wand? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 7:18pm
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Dakota, Re: hot hands you have three options:
------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 8:14pm
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No No No...... don't cover the hot parts...... let the customer feel them... it's a great selling tool.... and you don't really need a bypass.... just set up your vac hoses first... then pre-spray with your hydro force... by the time you start and even sometimes during the spraying the water is steaming hot... Hey Doug I get 190 at the wand....190+++ right up to 210 where only steam comes and no water and you get a funny smell... my water can get so hot it'll burn pressure hose... it'll turn the hose black and bubble the hell out of the plastic.... my hoses have melted a plastic door mat ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 8:38pm
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Mr. Steamer: If you covered your hot parts and quit letting your customers feel them you wouldn't get that funny smell?????????? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:03pm
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They want to feel the heat..... great selling point... when it's really dirty ... I'll kick my heat up to HELL FIRE... and I'll let the customer touch the brass ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:07pm
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Mr. Steamer: I just leave the heat as high as it is set for and just let it ride. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:09pm
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Those hose marks that hot hoses leave in the carpet is a bitch... Plus if the heat is too high..ie on a stain master carpet... the carpet will hold the wand marks forever... ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:12pm
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Mr. Steamer: That is when you need a glide. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:13pm
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naw I don't want a glide.... I like to feel how my wand is handling the carpet ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:16pm
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With the glide the wand marks are much easier to deal with. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:22pm
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Doug am I..... I do not like green OP and Glide I do not like them in a house I do not like them with a mouse I do not like them over here I do not like them over there I don't like them anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!! I do not like green OP and Glide I do not Like the doug am I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:26pm
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Mr. Steamer: Are you saying you have a green op machine with a glide. Mine is red with a glide. Go figure? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:30pm
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ok doug...you want to be smug doug am I..... I DO NOT LIKE RED OP AND GLIDE!!! ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:33pm
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Mr. Steamer: What you like or don't like means very little to me. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:36pm
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I much rather your 405 ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:37pm
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Hell their a dime a dozen. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:42pm
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I just got a pain in my chest from that last post...ouch ------------- www.mr-steamer.com |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/December/2004 at 9:45pm
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I will never be able to afford another tm the new ones are out of reach for me. I will just have to make do. ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 14/December/2004 at 12:05am
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Doug: You will soon see that it is possible to make way more money, with much less cost input than TMs require. The pad cleaning system will change how you clean carpet. The new $1000(US) padding machines that are coming combined with the Sahara pads are going to open up this way of cleaning and make it the way to clean sooner than most would suspect. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 14/December/2004 at 1:32am
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BTW,,,,I don't use those HIGH temps on newer cleaner carpet Jeesh |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 14/December/2004 at 1:38pm
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No need is there? ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 16/December/2004 at 11:38pm
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not really but I don't get THAT many calls for clean carpet I like a challenge,and the higher heat makes it a breeze to clean the nasties IMO |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 17/December/2004 at 7:51am
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Steaminpile: You say you clean carpets with a Breeze. I didn't know you pad cleaned? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Steaminpile
Date Posted: 17/December/2004 at 11:24am
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lol cuz I don't
the odd bonnet cleaning but primarily HWE not to say I won't ever find room in the van for a jiggly rag spinner. I simply believe that steam cleaning is much easier with higher heat |