I get concerned when some want to REPRESENT you yet don't want to teach your method...LOL

Some want to REPRESENT you but don't want your OPINON..

Some want to rEPRESENT but only if you feed thier egos.

Some of us prefer to respresent ourselves.

Yeah sure Gmoney. We'll get the fancy machine from Shaw's technical lab and measure the amount of dirt removed from the carpet by the cleaner and how much is left in there. Then you can be certified. Cost-$250.00plus GST. Sure.

I believe the CCT class will always improve an experienced cleaner with no formal education  on the subject.  

I don't believe that it will teach a novice all he needs to know.

Lee Lee Lee,

I have no idea where that came from but you are reminding me of Steamer and Doug by not answering a simple question. 

Yeah sure Gmoney. We'll get the fancy machine from Shaw's technical lab and measure the amount of dirt removed from the carpet by the cleaner and how much is left in there. Then you can be certified. Cost-$250.00plus GST. Sure.

Obviously you don't believe in there being a practical component that teaches how to move furniture, apply pre-spray, agitate, work the wand, bonnet, gls, OP  , blot stain removal techniques, customer rapport etc.  Your Shaw comment is not relevant but if you think it is so be it.  It kills me that nonsene responses are the accepted norm here.

And you are comfortable talking for a 2 days about cleaning and giving us a manual and then charging the $250 plus GST.  Just give me the manual and I will come in to write a test at a later date.  That way I do not have two days of down time.

I believe the CCT class will always improve an experienced cleaner with no formal education  on the subject.

I believe that experienced cleaner can save his money and learn FAR MORE for free on the boards ie. ICS, BBS, etc.  There he can get constant support from his peers and questions answered promptly.

Lee,

Tell me a few good reasons why I should pay my IICRC dues this year. What are the advantages of being a member.  And at the same time can you tell me what is being done to improve the organization.  In particular what is being done to help the average carpet cleaner that pays his/her dues on a yearly basis.   

Actually G we've been down this road before... I think I asked the very same question......

the answer I got was JUST PAY YOUR DAMN DUES

Doug is an IICRC GRAND MASTER

Lee is a highly respected Educator in the Carpet world

but still thats the answer I got...

Lee changed his nick, because of me and my constant bagering of him.

Doug is an IICRC GRAND MASTER

Mr. Steamer:  I believe it was you who gifted me with that not so gracious title.

Well gmoney did it ever occur to you that all that stuff is covered by many IICRC CCT classes?

Just because it didn't at the class you went to , doesn't mean that all of the classes omit this stuff.

Come to my class and you will have all that covered. Usually in the area where the TACT or TACH section is taught.

As for the bulletin boards being a better teacher than the class, well, I have yet to see TACT, manufacture of yarn, generations of nylon, fiber types and characteristics, testing, dye processes be discussed there. I am a regular on quite a number of boards too.

You attack Doug and Steamer, you state a lot of stuff about a lot of people. I'll tell you something, these guys are pretty smart guys and know their stuff. They have also percevered  through the hard times.

Don't be so naive as to judge them by their "behind the keyboard" personality.You however have a lot less to be judged by. A lot of guts and determination, but you can only last so long like that. Time will tell.

So you met Padman and you feel on top of the world, well earth to gmoney, there is quite often more than one right answer to a question.John LOVES to debate and have a good fight. I MEAN HE THRIVES ON IT. You don't have the same credentials to battle the same way he does IMO.

All that said, I envy your enthusiasm and I get off on your belief in the system you choose to use. Just don't keep making it sound like we are wrong and you are right and expect to look like a bigshot.

You proved me right again.  Lee just respond to what I asked you.  Thanks.  You are the respected educator.  Then educate me on these issues please.

Lee,

Tell me a few good reasons why I should pay my IICRC dues this year. What are the advantages of being a member.  And at the same time can you tell me what is being done to improve the organization.  In particular what is being done to help the average carpet cleaner that pays his/her dues on a yearly basis.   

And by the way Lee,

If you keep up on the posts from the beginning I said OP is one more tool to add to your toolbox.  And your friends Steamer and Doug were having no part of that.  So if you are telling the truth that you use six methods; you are choosing the wrong side!!!!!!!!!

There is a lot more to the IICRC than just cleaning.

I as an inspector get a significant number of referals  from the IICRC website.

I as a master restorer of both water and fire get some referals from the IICRC.

We as a firm get a number of referals for carpet cleaning from the IICRC.

More than anything we market the death out of the fact that our techs are IICRC certified. This does signify a distinction between our techs and Joe Blow. It does signify that the cleaner knows the difference between one carpet and another.

It is so easy to be a naysayer. ITS THE EASIEST THING IN THE WORLD.

I guess the question is, is it worth $30.00 U.S.

Well, to me thats peanuts. To me, I want my techs to have a system of constant, never ending improvement.

Don't compare yourself gathering info on the net as being part of the normal profile of a carpet cleaner. MOST CARPET CLEANERS DON'T EVER GO ON A CARPET CLEANING BULLETIN BOARD. Most carpet cleaners I talk to couldn't imagine spending ten minutes a day on the net,let alone a few hours.

The IICRC classes and CECs offer an education to the average cleaner they wouldn't get otherwise.

You know everything already gmoney, maybe you shouldn't support one of the few frameworks in existence to offer betterment to our industry.

I also pay dues to the CRI,FIO and LMCCA. But thats me. You do what you feel is right for you.

Back in my Dark Day... I would have totally disagreed with Lee... but the further you go in IICRC the more doors open for you.  IICRC may seem like just an introductory classes, but it's really up to you want you want to make of them.  The classes point you in the right direction, truly it would takes years to cover every aspect in detail. So thats why its up to you to build on the points that interest you or will help in your everyday cleaning.

I now think not enough of us are taking an interest to improve our craft,  Education and certification is the only way a true carpet cleaner can separate himself from the hacks out there....

forums like this are great... but don't be surprised that this free wealth of information could be wrong..

Instead of trying to knock something down lets try and build it up

Lee,

Tell me a few good reasons why I should pay my IICRC dues this year. What are the advantages of being a member.  And at the same time can you tell me what is being done to improve the organization.  In particular what is being done to help the average carpet cleaner that pays his/her dues on a yearly basis. 

I as an inspector get a significant number of referals  from the IICRC website.

I as a master restorer of both water and fire get some referals from the IICRC.

We as a firm get a number of referals for carpet cleaning from the IICRC.

So let me get this right, the IICRC will not give you referals if you are an AVERAGE carpet cleaner (remember the question).  This privelege only is granted once you pay more money and take more courses to become an inspector, master restorer, certified firm etc? My origingal question still remains.  What is in it for the average due payer (which is the majority of members)!!  You are in the know so can you please tell us

Don't compare yourself gathering info on the net as being part of the normal profile of a carpet cleaner. MOST CARPET CLEANERS DON'T EVER GO ON A CARPET CLEANING BULLETIN BOARD. Most carpet cleaners I talk to couldn't imagine spending ten minutes a day on the net,let alone a few hours.

I was responding to this LEE,

I believe the CCT class will always improve an experienced cleaner with no formal education  on the subject.

I was not comparing myself to anyone and most carpet cleaners if given the choice of getting answers and education as it pertains to their everday cleaning concerns would pick a bulletin board over a two day one off seminar.  Now on a board they can go through the archives, do a search, ask questions, and get ongoing support from 'IICRC certified masters ironically' and 'street smart masters'.

You know everything already gmoney, maybe you shouldn't support one of the few frameworks in existence to offer betterment to our industry.

You are ignorant Lee.  No I do not know everything and that is why I was honestly trying to find out some information that would help me better understand the role IICRC plays in our businesses (in particular the average due payer) and the direction that the organization plans to take in the immediate and distant future. 

I was giving you an opportunity to promote the IICRC to the average carpet cleaner who is either not a member, thinking of becoming one, stopped paying their dues, sees the reality that they paid their money and now all the IICRC does is send a bill once a year etc.

The IICRC will be proud that you confirmed:

Nothing is being done for the average member

You must pay more through courses to get a few measly referals; maybe

There is no plan for the future to raise the profile of the IICRC or the that of the certified cleaner....or at least it is being suppressed from the rest of us 

We spend money promoting our IICRC certification too...but so do those that aren't...what is being done to combat this ( maybe they should focus more on the aforementioned paragraph)

You say it sets you apart from BLOW JOE....How... the customer unfortunately does not know any better

One area I think that the IICRC has failed miserably in is helping to ensure that prices stay at a respectable level.  There are MANY IICRC certified techs charging less than those that are not.  WHY?  Maybe because we do not talk about pricing in the training and how important it is for ALL of us to be on par.  Then the customer will be wary of the low baller.  Unfortunately it is the other way around.  From the responses I have been getting on the boards I honestly think it will never be reversed.  Unless of course a large group of us in our respective areas get together and agree on minimum price points that must be adhered to.  I know many of you are rolling your eyes.  And unfortunately this should be the number one focus of your business : impart professionalism and command a healthy commission for your services.

Gmoney----price fixing is illegal. Wake up!!

All you do is bash people and things.

Its very easy to be a basher.

I am sorry my answer wasn't a page long and cover all the details you demanded.

I think  that you just like stirring the pot. The bottom line here is that the IICRC sets standards. It is a conduit that approves schools.

The IICRC owns no schools. If you want to make a difference why don't you get involved. All you do is complain.

Lee you dissappoint me.  The IICRC can go screw themselves if that's the attitude instilled within the organization.  I asked you valid questions that all of us average joes would like to know and you did sh*t to try and clarify things. 

All mechanics charge a basic rate that is very close to one another and this is not illegal.  And obviously you have not been following gas prices from the moment you have been able to drive.  Is it just a coincidence that all stations go up or down a few cents within hours of each other and you will NEVER find a station giving you a 32 cent deal while the others charge 75 cents?????? 

I simply asked you to explain what the IICRC is doing for the average cleaner and what direction it is headed in.  You say get involved.  Get involved in what? 

I am involved. I USE TO pay my dues. Not anymore.  You must be crazy.  What should I send a letter back in the mail with my once a year bill begging them to allow me to get involved.  Where is the monthly, quarterly, yearly newsletter?  Updates on new chemistry, cleaning techniques, profile of a featured successful business?

Lee KMA you arrogant goat.  I was not bashing.  I was asking NOT DEMANDING.  If you didn't have the answer then you should of just said so.  Don't try and fake the funk by attacking me. 

All you do is bash people and things.

Wrong again.  What you don't want to hurt Steamer's and Doug's feelings.  All they do is bash me and my 3 methods and never want to engage in a discussion about the benefits of these methods.  And then you come into the middle of a thread without reading from the start and take the wrong side.  Like I said, if you do have 6 methods then it is a no brainer as to how you should be responding to them.  You are spineless my friend. 

BY THE WAY, THANKS FOR answering MY QUESTIONS!@

Your problem sir, is that the IICRC is not, nor has ever been, what you expect it to be.

I owe you nothing sir.

I owe you no explanation.

I am a volunteer who spends a lot of time developing the new HST Canada class.

I am not a representative of the IICRC.

So slam and bash away sir.

Make your wife proud.

Now if you want an organization to do what you think needs to be done, then organize one yourself. I am involved with other organizations and I'll tell you, the work involved always outweighs the rewards, and inevidably some person screams at us for not doing things the way they want.

If you saw the amount of work and diplomacy required to perform a position at the IICRC,you might show these individuals more respect.

Instead you have a temper tantrum because you don't get the answers you want and personally attack me because I don't write a page and a half giving you information. I have no reason or desire to speak to you at all. You're a hothead without any solid input to give.

Gmoney.... he's not saying these things to please me.... Lee can't stand me...

IICRC is not all it can be...but it's all we have...I've been down your road before... I've asked the same questions...but I took time and researched it for myself..... Marc Gagnon my instructor gave all of us who took classes with him his personal 1-800-number... Which I've used on a few occasions.

In Canada... the lack of cleaners make it very difficult to offer classes on a regular bases, these things cost money.  With small number comes high class fees... which no one wants to pay...  your 30+ bucks a year means nothing on the big scale of things... they need you and 100,000.00 more members just to keep things running like they are...

It comes down to support for the cause...which now adays everyone and his uncle is a carpet cleaner....uncertified of course

It comes down to funding....they need your 30+ bucks to keep things rolling... are you willing to pay more???enrollment is way down

Lee Sir I truly apologize for all the times I flamed you on this subject, until I took it upon myself to find my own answers, I was blind to the cause... just like Gmoney

Maybe oneday he'll see the light too

Mr. Steamer"IICRC Certified"Cleaner

Doug.... I made a few phone calls did a little reading, sent a few e-mails and pulled my head from out of my ass.....

Companies like Sears are advertising IICRC Tech's.... but there are none everyone is home schooled...

Carpet Cleaning is going to hit a low low... where no one is going to be able to tell a good cleaner from a bad cleaner....

I mentioned some of my Ideas to the Board via e-mail, but everything comes down to lack of interest and lack of funding and support funding...may people don't pay there dues....

To make changes an Organization needs to have enough money... I was asking the right questions but the wrong people...

30 bucks a year US...damn thing should be more... I really want something that Makes me a Certified Tech... something that will put me far above the fly by nights and get me the respect I deserve for the job I do...

IICRC is the only way we're going to stop the hacks from hacking to death our profession.

The IICRC is a guideline producing factory.  I got that one.  I now see the light Steamer. 

Practical training is frowned upon.  Read the manuals, listen to our instructors and go out there and do your best. 

 Ironically my instructor raved about his companies 'natutral and safe' product and its cosmetic grade peroxide content.  Now peroxide has been taken out of their product because it is not safe. Yet other companies continue to use peroxide in their chemicals. And I am paying for this? 

Was I complaining about the price of membership.  No.  Was only asking what that fee included and if there is another organization that others might feel do a better job (since there are many out there).

Doug I am not picking on Lee (as you said in another thread).  I asked a question and he decided to chirp in.  My question was not answered, but then I guess that is an answer in itself.  All I got was just shut and continue taking courses and paying dues, and how dare you try and get an explanation as to the direction they are taking.  And that attempting to construct a pricing structure where WE ALL  getting paid a fair rate for our services is illegal.  

Unfortunately, MOST of us have given in to price fixing:  low ballers and big commercial clients dictate to us what prices should be paid for our services. 

Now for my continuing beef on pricing:

And why is pricing dictated by our clients Steamer?  Because we let them.  If an electrical contractor came in to do work for your commercial client and they said "all we are willilng to pay is ......"  The contractor would then justify the price.  Why don't we do that?  Budgets are just guidelines and not written in stone.  Trust me.

If 6 IICRC cleaners quote a commercial job anywhere from 20-30 cents.  Then that is what the client has to pay.  When a company does it for 10 cents one year, then the client sees that we can be beaten down on price,  Now every year from then on 10 cents is the norm.  Why?  Because  we allowed it. Because as you say companies like Mainline are doing this is; it does not make it right. 

Gmoney... Companies get and collect quotes... I've seen up to 15 companies quote the same job.... The lady showed me the folder and asked if I could do all this other company offered and lower the price..

they keep going till they get everything they want and the price they want to pay...

maybe each guy dropped it just 2 cents to get the job... but 2 cents over 15 contractors thats 30 cents...

Thats why I refuse to give written quotes unless they are committed to clean, and we are setting up an appointment time

Doug and Steamer,

I understand what you are saying and don't even bother with those quotes.  I would love to get involved in a fair bidding war but I refuse to get into it with those companies that bastardize the industry. 

Maybe on those quotes we should be fear mongerers and tell the customer that only IICRC certified techs should be touching their precious carpets.  And if IICRC techs are also lowballing...............then all is lost.

I guess the general consensus is that nothing can be done to change this. Am I correct?

you got that right Padman... they are... and they have the IICRC sign with their yellow pages ad... etc etc..

because thats what the customer wants to hear... who's checking

Gmoney..... at this point in canada what we need is more support... so we can have better classes and raise the level of training...

go to the IICRC website... send them your questions... someone will get back to you

Can I call him??....You know what they say...if the mountain won't come to Muhammed...Maybe knock on his door and request a chat over coffee.........No, he'll probably think I'm a thug from Jane and Finch looking to do him in  .......I would probably get electricuted by his 20 foot security fence anyways...... or his estate rottweilers....On second thought......I think the email route would be a safer bet.

You know this guy personally Doug? 

If you do set up a meeting?  I'll be nice to him.....I promise.  

Question???  I have a NOVEL OF QUESTIONS AND SUGGESTIONS.  I'll keep them so inundated with responding to me that there won't be anymore time to make up more guidelines.

support... higher dues... funding... interest

good luck

That's a good start.  I'll add to that.

The semi annual IICRC meetings are in progress as we speak.

Carey will be back soon, I speak to him frequently and have access to him by his mobile.

However his plate is more than full. He has upwardsof 300 e-mails in his inbox at times.

I will be asking him to field questions at the FIO Christmas party. He did this at a seminar last year.

Have you considered asking the FIO your questions? We are shareholders of  the IICRC you know. As a member of the Board of the FIO  I'd even answer your questions if you were civil, if I didn't have the answers I would TRY and get them. However I  (and others ) may not be able to drop everything and answer all your questions immediately you know.