With all the talk and chatter about various carpet cleaning methods, how come no one wants to talk about their vacuum cleaner? If, as its said, 80% of all dirt can be extracted with the vacuum, it would seem a good unit would be a vital part of any cleaners arsenal.

I've only owned a few vacuums in my life, but our current Kirby G4 is a great unit. Not only does it clean exceptionally well, it has a bunch of different attachments that make it so more versatile than just for vacuuming. However, its really heavy, and I doubt it would be a good choice for commercial jobs.

What kind of vacuum do you use, and why?

Thanks!

Hmmm. I was under the impression that a thorough vacuuming was performed before HWE, seeing as how the TM cannot agitate the carpet like the beater brush on a vacuum.

Anyway, what do TM operators do when confronted with major chunks and crud on the carpet? Just suck away? Seems a prevac would help with the process.

I'd be interested in anyone else's comments regarding my initial questions. Much thanks.

HooBoy,

Most carpet cleaners don't know what a vacuum cleaner is. Ninety five percent of the carpet cleaner vans that I look into DO NOT have a vacuum cleaner.

Every carpet cleaning job should start out first by dry vacuuming.

Why don't they?

• Greed
• Costs

Quality has nothing to do with it.

Danger
Those who vacuum dry dust and lint into a hot water extractor will find they have no dry filtering device to accumulate the dust and it will only blow back out the machines exhaust causing your customer a dust problem. In other words you will take it from the carpet and put it on the furniture.

Now if you would like to dry-vacuum with a carpet extractor http://www.kleenkuip.com/portables/edic_extraction_accessories.htm - click here.

Carpetologist wrote: HooBoy, Most carpet cleaners don't know what a vacuum cleaner is. Ninety five percent of the carpet cleaner vans that I look into DO NOT have a vacuum cleaner. Every carpet cleaning job should start out first by dry vacuuming. Why don't they? Greed Costs

Thats the way it's been ever since I've been doing it

I have a Sanitaire

but I was actually given an old pile lifter for free today and all it needs is brushes.

I'll be trying it out on a big commercial job this weekend.

I like my Sanitaire cuz it's tough as nails and agitates very well,but loves them belts.

forget that sh*t, tell the lady of the house it's her job!

but come to think of it, I have done apartments & condo's where the bloody tennant did not OWN a damn vac! 

How does a pile lifter differ specifically from a normal vacuum cleaner with beater bar?

Sorry, I don't follow your comment. I'm asking specific information regarding the physical difference between a pile lifter and a regular vacuum cleaner.

Please excuse my newbie questions. I'm sincere and trying to get some information here. Your patience is appreciated.

Thank you.

HOOBOY: Oh boy: A pile lifter has two motors and a big brush.  A vacuum has a brush/beater bar.  One is for heavy duty vacuuming on commerical and the other just is.

Splash & Steamer,

If when I go to the car wash and I was told that I had to take the first layer of dust off myself I would go elsewhere.

They major reason why carpet cleaners don't vacuum (they know they should) is because they know they can get away with it. http://www.kleenkuip.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=328&KW=dry+soil+removal - Click here for Dry Soil Removal Post Apr. 26/04

HooBoy will also get all his answers here. I don't want my dentist, doctor, mechanic etc. to cut corners. Most who you pay a little more for don't.

I bet Mr. Steamer is a very wealthy man! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

At the risk of giving even more offense, I'll inquire further.

I've never used or even seen a pile lifter. I understand by its name what its trying to do, but I'd just like a bit more information about it. (Perhaps I should just PM Ted and he can set me straight without all the hooplah.)

Does a pile lifter have a bag? Are its brushes counter-rotating? How specifically does it differ from a regular vacuum cleaner?

Much thanks for any info!

Hoo Boy

Scroll back approx: five posts where we were addressing Splash & Steamer and click on dry soil and removal.  All the pictures and information you require are on that site.

Okay, great. Thanks for the info.

Where and when would a pile lifter be preferred to a regular vacuum cleaner; or is it just assumed it will do a superior job of vacuuming in general, seeing it has the dual motor? Specifically, is it the best choice for precleaning, or is it best used as a daily sweeper? Where are pile lifters best applied?

Thanks again!

splash_$$$_dash wrote: forget that sh*t, tell the lady of the house it's her job!

IF YOU CAME TO MY HOUSE WITH THAT CHAUVANISTIC ATTITUDE i WOULD  "SPLASH" YOU WITH SOME PEPPER SPRAY AND "DASH" YOUR ASS OUT MY DOOR! LADY OF THE HOUSE PUHLEEEEEEESE!

PAD DIVA NORTH 

MR. STEAMER wrote: you would think that mud would be easier to suck away???

HEY STEAMER

MAYBE YOU SHOULD TRY NOT MAKING ALL THAT MUD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

DIVA

HI HOOBOY

SORRY I DIDN'T SEE THIS POST SOONER MAYBE YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AN ANSWER INSTEAD OF A HASSLE.

We have used a Pile Lifter and numerous commercial vacuums.

• a pile lifter has a large stiff brissle brush that actually digs into the carpet and relifts the fibres
• it also provides adjitation therefore releasing excess dirt from the fibre and base of the carpet
• it also has a mechanism that prevents large articles ei. coins, paperclips, plastic etc. from damaging the motor.
• The one down fall the pilelifter we used was that it wouldn't allow you to vacuum any closer than 2 1/2 inches from the wall
• This is a problem because dust and hair like to settle in the edges
• It also heavy and ackward and a pain for houses.

Commercial vacs like the Sanitaire have GREAT suction, they are light weight and if you get a magnetic strip put on the nose of it, it will pick up the coins, paperclips and if your not going too fast some bigger items. (for those to lazy to bend and snap)

We vacuum at the end of every cleaning

our customers love it!

PAD DIVA NORTH

Hey thanks, Diva! Very nice answer, and just the info I was looking for. I have no experience with the pile lifter, and that's why I wanted to know.

What kind of vacuum do you use after you're done cleaning, (or is it the pile lifter?) I guess I'd rather not mess with one if possible, but only use a good commercial vac.

I'm researching different brands right now. PowrFlite looks like a good brand, as does this Sanitare. Any other top notch brands that have a good reputation in this industry?

Along the same lines, is there any preference towards using a bag vs a dirt cup vacuum? The dirt cup would seem to be the preferrable way to go, but there's probably a major dust issue with them. Any info is much appreciated!

Thanks again.

Diva I always thought you vacuum before cleaning, not after. Even when you pad clean the carpet is still damp, how does a vacuum cleaner pick up dust or dirt on wet fibers. Does this not ruin your motor in your vacuum? 

Keep it as simple as the question. Most times long answers give me a head ache.

I'm sure they vac first Adwa???? or do they????

"Keep it as simple as the question. Most times long answers give me a head ache."

oh my she may not post a reply now adwa

Hi Adwa

I will keep my answer short.

We vacuum AFTER. Remember we PAD  and it is DRY before we are ready to vac. Under 1 hr dry times (normally 1/2 an hour) really does mean that!

For Steamer I say   unlike you I always answer questions asked of me, and if I can't I find someone who can!

And John; I guess we wouldn't know that feeling now would we LOL

PAD DIVA NORTH

so you don't pre-vac?????

no pre vac at all??? just a post vac???

no pre just post...do I have it right

Still looking for some specific brand recommendations.

Lindhaus vacuums are very good but pricey (also come in many different labels)

Powrflite's are good

Dyson (too much $$ for a piece of plastic IMO)

Sanitaire and Eureka commercial vacs are great and priced reasonably

if you have a TM,a turbine is impressive.

No TM system, which is why I'm interested in a portable. I have a Kirby G4 at home, but the wife won't want me using it full time. Its a great system, but takes time to change attachments, and the bags fill up quickly, (which is good cause it shows how much dirt its picking up.) That's why I'm looking for a good brand.

I haven't checked out the Bissell, but if the performance is good, I'll probably get one. I'd like it to have a good hose attachment system, and it should be relatively durable. I want to get into the OP pad system, and a good vacuum is really important.

Diva,

What is the primary benefit of post-vacing? Obviously, a prevac is essential, but how essential is the post vac? Is it simply a matter of setting the pile, or does the vacuum enable something else?

A friend using a bonnet system uses a carpet rake to set the pile when he's done. Could this work in place of the post vac?

Just askin.

hooboy check this out http://www.kleenkuip.com/used_equipment/used_minuteman_pileLifter.htm - http://www.kleenkuip.com/used_equipment/used_minuteman_pileL ifter.htm  

A pile lifter differs very little from a vacuum cleaner other than it is a super duper extra powered industrial vacuum cleaner with one cylindrical brush, a heavy fall out trap door and a large capacity bag. They are also on our website under used equipment for sale.

It's how all carpet cleaning should start off. Especially if cleaning with bonnet or pad.

Oops, did I say a bad word?

oops, did I say a bad word?

[/QUOTE]

Would that be bad word or pad word???

Using a vacuum post cleaning is imperative with OP cleaning.

Three things:

It sets the pile

It makes the finished product beautiful

OP agitation kicks up more than any other type of method, no matter how much you vacuum or pile lift OP will bring up hair and grit, so post vacuuming is a MUST.

PadMan

Diva,

What is the primary benefit of post-vacing? Obviously, a prevac is essential, but how essential is the post vac? Is it simply a matter of setting the pile, or does the vacuum enable something else?

Thanks Padman

I was just about to make the same points !

HOOBOY We always post vac Prevacumming is great if it has to be done but we do a lot of commercial and they normally have a staff that vacuum before we get there. What Padman said is sooooo true you wouldn't believe the amount of crap that oping get up out of the carpet.

DIVA

It makes it look better douggie.....

Diva do you vac commercial carpet after too???

Diva  I still am not sure about vacuuming after you have cleaned. I think a vacuum can not withstand the moisture you will pick up in the motor. Unless you wait around for the carpet to dry this will be a problem for you and an extra cost replacing the unit or motor before its life span.

I felt the carpet after money cleaned it with pads and it was still damp enough for me to voice this concern.

I just saw on another thread that you are his assistant..lol

Don't forget to bring your wands so he can demo them...bahahahaha

HooBoy,

If you want to low budget your vacuum you can buy domestic for $99.00

If you are looking for an industrial at a fair price choose a Ureka Sanitaire approx. $500.00 Cdn.

If you want close to a pile lifter choose the http://www.kleenkuip.com/products/oreck_dual_stack_commercial_upright.htm - Oreck Dual Stack.

Now if your wife won't part with her Kirby I have on in excellent condition I will sell to you for $300.00

ADWA

IT IS DRY BEFORE WE VACUUM

That is the bonus of OPing it dries (within an hour) before you leave!!

You dont risk damaging the motor

And YES DOUG we Vac after!!

DIVA

Well, I bought the Bissell Cleanview bagless from Wally World today, for around $95, primarily based on the recommendations of the cleaners on this and other boards.

It works well, and I ponied up for the more expensive version that has the upholstry cleaning tool. I went over my office floor today and it picked up a bunch of junk. (Anyone have any tips on making the plastic dirt cup less static-y?)

Interestingly, Consumer Reports October issue rates this vacuum 26 out of 27 vacuums, which is rather bad, actually.

Here they are ranked by CR.

Rank Model  Cost USD
1 Hoover WindTunnel Self Propelled Ultra U6439-900   $290.00
2 Kenmore (Sears) Progressive with Direct Drive 31912   $230.00
3 Eureka Boss Smart Vac Ultra 4870 CR Best Buy  $140.00
4 Hoover WindTunnel U6630-900   $400.00
5 Hoover Tempo U5146-900   $80.00
6 Hoover WindTunnel Bagless U5750-900   $180.00
7 Kenmore (Sears) 33289   $80.00
8 Kenmore (Sears) Progressive 33912   $200.00
9 Dyson DC07  $400.00
10 Kenmore (Sears) Progressive 34612   $140.00
11 Oreck XL21-600  $500.00
12 Dirt Devil Vision M087900  $180.00
13 Bissell ProLite 3560-2  $200.00
14 Panasonic Dual Sweep Bagless MC-V7582   $180.00
15 Bissell Lift-Off 3750  $180.00
16 Electrolux Aptitude EL5010A  $300.00
17 Hoover Fold Away U5162-900   $110.00
18 Dirt Devil Scorpion 088100  $80.00
19 Panasonic Fold 'n Go MC-V5481  $100.00
20 Westinghouse Unplugged WST1600  $295.00
21 Bosch Turbo Jet BUH11700UC  $200.00
22 Bissell Powerforce 3522-1  $45.00
23 Kenmore (Sears) Quick Clean Bagless 34

My Bro-in-Law has the Kenmore Progressive, and he really loves it. Engineered and made in Germany, with a progressive carpet height, and a very strong motor.

Any comments about this list and the performance of the Bissell? I do know this: CR's reporting can be definitely skewed in certain directions. Knowing the philosophy behind their testing methodology is very important. Also, the difference between numbers 1 and 27 may not really be that great. Still, its an interesting list, don't you think? Maybe I'll take the Bissell back for another. (I really like the dirt cup, though, so the custy can really see what you're extracting.)

The thing is doug.... a housewifes vac not as durable as a commercial vac..

Just like housewife tools....not as strong as Professional tools

Doug,

Why buy good when you can buy the best? Sure, the Bissell works, but if something works much better, that's the better value.

Adwa,

I bought the Bissell because its so highly esteemed and talked about on CC boards. I would have thought any other model would have been as highly touted if it were better. I don't know why the Bissell has received so much acclaim from the CC world, except that it may have attained a high level of performance before the others, but has now fallen back of the pack as the others have improved so much more. I really don't know. Can any of the veterans attest to why the Bissell has garnered so much acclaim by CCers?

My bro-in-laws Kenmore was $150 higher than the Bissell, and I had forgotten I had a subscription to CR before I made my purchase. (Its a common behavior, though, to investigate the veracity of one's purchase only *after* the deal has been made. Something about how we're trying to affirm our intuitive abilities. )

HooBoy,

I have said it on this board many times in the past. Don't ever take into a clients location an article or chemical that they can buy domestically themselves. For the very simple reason the next time they won't need you.

Fifty percent of this business is show business. Good job old Sam Walton is gone or he would have beat me to PROXI and your customers would be buying it in WalMart for $2.99 a bottle and not needing your services.

Hold your head high and be a pro. A Bissell will bring you down.

I do like the comparison chart but only to get you brownie points when giving it to your customer who is contemplating on a vacuum purchase.

The good news is that four minutes after I posted that you should look at my $300.00 Kirby it sold.

Thanks

Good points, Ted, and I take them to heart. However, I'm starting out on a budget, so I need to get value where I can. The Bissell will stay for the time being.

With all the TM folks who basically don't even have a vac, and the rest of the folks who don't prevac anyway, it makes this whole question somewhat obscure or even novel. Even though I'll be starting off with low cost equipment, I plan on doing the best job I can, with the best chemicals I can afford. That's what's really important at least to me. Sure, the showmanship is great, and specialized "professional" tools are very important. Everyone knows they must do a much better job than consumer models. For the most part, though, they're just better constructed to handle more use.

For that reason, are their any strong feelings about exactly which commercial vacuum to get? Here are some brands I've collected over the past weeks:

Dyson
Sanitare
PowrFlite
Commercial Hoover
Commercial Eureka

Any others worthy of mention?

I  currently own a bissel in my home.  its the clearview bagless model.   well I have owned it for about 1 year.    At first i was floored by its performance.    It would litterly pull itself across the carpet.   Well after about 8 months the moter now sounds like a 747 and the performance has dropped in half!    sounds like a piece of sh*t  to me.       I  have been looking into the dyson It really is a well built vac. sure it might not have all the fancy smancy chit on it. but we dont need that anyway.  I  talked with a dyson rep and was pretty impressed.   I  would honestly feel cofortable throwing a dyson down a flight of steps and am pretty sure it would not hurt the dam thing really thats what the testers are doing to these things.   the hoses are high quaility. the heppa filters are liftime units, how sweet that is.    the pre-filter can be washed out in the sink every  month or so.    another neat feature is the clutch system on the beater bar, that keeps you from frying a belt if you get somthing wrapped around the beater.   call it what you want, I think the brits did their homework on this machine. YOu can pick this vac up for 250 if you look on ebay.       I am by no means knocking any of the previous vacs listed   I think they are all good units exept that dam 747!      I think it would make a good light duty vac.      

Sebo-Excellent vacuum

Lindhaus-comes under a few names

Miele-good vac

I was actually impressed by a Sanyo commercial vac

biggest difference in a commercial vac is the longer cord with 3 prongs instead of 2 and usually have 2 motors instead of 1

What did you like about the Sanyo Commercial? (I see they're available at Sams for less than $130USD.

The G4 Kirby we have is still a hard unit to beat. True, its heavy and not a commercial vac, but it sure is durable and it really cleans well. I've been very impressed ever since my wife brought it with her when we got married. Its a bit of a pain to change out the beater bar for the hose and other accessories, but the number of attachments really makes it worthwhile. I plan on using the shampooer along with some encapsulating WHAMM shortly. I think it should work well on our home carpet.

I'll check out that Sanyo vac sometime when I'm at Sams.

just does a good job for a cheaper vac IMO

I went with a Sanitaire

It's amazing we have had 654 views on the topic of Vacuums and I doubt that most of you carpet cleaners even own a vacuum. Things must be a changin'.

Hooboy you may have started a trek to WalMart. I would like a piece of that but just can't get my price that low.

Remember you can buy oats for two different prices. One before it goes into the horse and one after it comes out of the horse.

http://www.kleenkuip.com/products/oreck_dual_stack_commercial_upright.htm"> If you want a Kick A** then let your customers see you using a professional Dual Stack Vacuum from Oreck. It will put you into the upper class carpet cleaning category.

Nowadays you see Mr. Oreck's face on TV selling vacuums and air purifiers. They must be spending millions. Why not cash in on this advertising for free and tell your customers that Mr. Oreck has made this vacuum cleaner especially for industrial carpet cleaners.

Remember the Dry Guys have come a long way with a little BS. (PadMan excluded as he tells it the way it is). It seems thats the way they want to hear it.

$895.00 and worth it

One of the attributes of this vacuum is the inside when it takes a beating. It is made of Kevlar. That's what they use to make bullet proof vests out of.

When you pick up a penny, paper clip or other metal objects with other vacuums you cringe listening to the clicking sound. With the Dual Stack it's not a problem.

My pics are:

Husky

Lindhaus

Sebo

All of these are powerhouses.  They last and last.  Remember that when you invest in a commercial vac, you can have it maintained and reapired regularly at a good vacuum shop.  An $800 investment can get you the vac (brand new), powerhead and all attachments.  Consider the backpack vac as it works well for commercial and residential.

That said, I don't think a commercial vac replaces a pile lifter for tough jobs but the pile lifter is just to hard to use in residential. 

I have no problem with asking the home owner to do it but if they don't I charge $40 for vacuuming.

Can I hire your cmaster just to do my vacuuming?????????

sounds kinky to me

cmaster flying in to do Adwa vacuuming..

alarm bells start ringing

deja vous deux

Steamer,

You have a lot af alarm bells ringing today

Outer space?