Are you lads BRAINWASHED?
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Category: Carpet Cleaners Discussion
Forum Name: Carpet Cleaners Hangout
Forum Description: General discussion on anything related to carpet cleaning
URL: https://www.kleenkuip.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=233
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Topic: Are you lads BRAINWASHED?
Posted By: jackblack
Subject: Are you lads BRAINWASHED?
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 3:43pm
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Replies:
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 4:02pm
| I don't think anyone has been brain washed. They stay on the side of caution with names they no they can trust. You use a portable, what damage can you do over wet, with a portable you need all the help you can get if you are cleaning dirty, cleaning clean is another story. How is this being applied? If using TM and a hydro force with high,heat and pressure how does this product react? What residues are left. How does it react to a rinse. It may be good for powerwahing greesy equipment but is it made to be applied to carpets. If there is a problem is your mad scientest going to stan behind the product if an inspection says it is a cleaning problem like chemspec and Pro Chem? There is no freebees in this day and age. I personally am not interested in saving a couple cents here and there to have to spend many dollars later. This is the opinion of the writer. People you are free to do what you want. It's your money and future. |
Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 4:26pm
| I asked for an MSDS, can send to i mailto:Info@freshandclean.ca - nfo@freshandclean.ca |
Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 5:31pm
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They have only been making products for carpet cleaning for 35 years. You really are brainwashed. What you fail to recognize is that there are some very big chemical companies doing private label for YOUR suppliers. Unless you have been to the lab/factory where your product comes from you can't say sh1t. I have been inside plants where 1 product was labelled 15 different ways... I bet you think Canadian Tire makes all their own tires too |
Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 5:55pm
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Since you're the spokesperson for this relativly unknown product and company.........why don't you post some prices and some specs on the product and I'll be the first in line to try it. Is it liquid. is it sold in gallons, cases, drums. Whats the main active ingrediant. You have to tell us something. Push the product.........I for one will give it a go. NIGHTRIDER |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 5:56pm
| Well jacksh*t: Now you have gone and spoiled everything I thought Canadian Tire made their own tires. But than again I don't buy my tires at Canadian Tire so it dosn't matter. Please don,t say anthying about santa and spoil christmas. Is there anyone who private labels Tide. I would like to save some money. |
Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 6:17pm
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Nightrider with all due respect. I am not the "spokesperson" But think about it, how many suppliers say just give me your mailing address and I'll send you a few free gallons? Now I know why they dont do it, because they already know what I just realized. Most carpet cleaners (Not nightrider, jackblack and stanley) are RETARDED $hit who know's maybe you are correct nightrider when you said each guy posting has 5 different names they post under which means there is really only 2 or 3 guys here???
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Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 6:51pm
| Jack: Maybe you should come down off your hyhores before you hyperventilate. Most cleaners that have been around, have at one time or another had gallons of product that was suppose to be a answer to everything and was not. NO name and private lable tells me nothing. But i know for fifty cents I will stay heinz because there are no other kinds with that distinct tast. So you can do your informmerical all you like but it is not going to work. It reminds me of as seen on TV so everyone should buy it because it is cheap. Lets be resonable a lab can't sell a product they are maunfacturing for someone. They have to change the chemestry. Maybe the MSDS will state the one side effect of prolonged exposure to your product is RETARDATION who knows. But since everyone is already retarded hey what do we have to lose. |
Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 7:25pm
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Doug a little off topic but I can tell from the way you write and spell that either English is not your first language or you just not go very far in the Ontario School system. That being said, when you state: "Lets be resonable a lab can't sell a product they are maunfacturing for someone. They have to change the chemestry" What exactly are you talking about? |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 7:50pm
| Well jack I guess I have been exposed to your mircale cleaner. So being retarded that is the best I can do. Why do people start posts by insulting everyone's intellengence? My spelling may not be perfect but I at least I get my point accross and I do usually have one. Unfortunately jack you missed the boat. Oh, did I see you did a job for less than $200.00 Jack did you mislead us with your previous statement? Surely a man trying to push snake oil would not mislead a mass of retards? Would he? Jack I am glad you have a portable because you are very small minded to come out and insult everyone or not. |
Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 8:01pm
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"Jack I am glad you have a portable because you are very small minded to come out and insult everyone or not." Dude you make so much sense when your write/speak If this is how you speak to customers I hope you clean in my area. While I'm dealing with business owners and educated property managers I think you're dealing with housewives or people who just got off the boat
Anyway I'm done with you...DOUG YOU'RE FIRED!!! |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 8:10pm
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Jack I am glad it is over I was running of things to say. Business owners and educated property managers. WOW I am impressed with the people you hang with. All the ones who want everything done for nothing. Just couldn't resist the last word since I am fired. You have a good day Jack I hope it is not to late to salvage it. You appear to be getting a bit hot under the collar. You should know me by now. No offence just had to rattle your chain when I had the chance. |
Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 9:01pm
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Spoken like a true Canadian…you’ve got a good attitude I have to give you that. |
Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 10:01pm
| Meanwhile..back at the ranch..Nightrider is still waiting for some prices and specs on that so called wonder product. |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 10:12pm
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Any chemicals can be made with the proper specs....Weak up people..it's called co-packing.....Slap on Chem-spec or pro chem or esteem on it and it triples the price..... Why not buy factory direct...where you can get the savings..... ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 10:12pm
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He'sscared to show an MSDS. Maybe its full of butyls. Maybe its full of NPEs. Who knows? Trust me. Oh brother, answer Nightrider's question will ya. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 10:23pm
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Hey let up. You guys are looking for MSDS. I am looking for a record of employment. I was fired without just caues. I believe in this provience you have the right to refuse.Don't you. Stanley I don' thimk you can by chemicals with the exact mixture as chemspec from the company chemspec has a contract with or there would be trouble. I could be wrong but I believe there would be a licenceing agreement to prevent this. |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 10:33pm
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True thing Doug...but who's going to tell....I come from the land of co-packing...to Analise a product breakdown is very easy...all these companies have labs right on site...a few hours and the can give you an exact chemical breakdown of any product.... no secret sauce here.....lol a lot of the products we by are bogus believe me I know...not ever thing is mixed to spec...not everything gets the very same dilution...it varies from batch to batch. you must have noticed that 1 bottle of soap worked great....but the next time you bought it... it didn't work as great... Msds are good but not always true...don't get caught up by fasle security...I know I was in the industry ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 10:34pm
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Everything is not as black and as white as it seems ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 11:15pm
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I'm sure you all know this but in The product I was talking about for the restaurants has NO butyl. And this whole thing about “licensing agreements” forget about it you’re not even close. Next you guys will tell me SWISH makes their own chemicals LOL
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Posted By: jackblack
Date Posted: 04/April/2004 at 11:20pm
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Speaking of "batch to batch" Inconsistency Ask yourself this...Is your chemical company ISO certified????? http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ISOOnline.openerpage - http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ISOOnline.openerpage |
Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 12:13am
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Listen JackBlack.....are you just going to ramble on about junk that means nothing......what are the prices, the specs, and is this stuff liquid or powder. You seem to just go round and round in circles and say zipity doo....nothing at all. PRICE AND SPECS OR SHUT UP ABOUT WHAT YOU USE.........PUT UP.....OR SHUT UP. nightrider |
Posted By: Jim Darling
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 11:23am
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This has been a very intersting thread to follow. Seeing as many of you are talking about chemistry I feel somewhat compelled to respond. I can't speak about other chemical companies because I don't know them. I only know about our company. Someone talked about Heinz ketchup in a different topic I beleive. We all know that Heinz is the market leader. If it was so easy to copy then we could all find the same taste for a lower cost. I have tried all of the others and there is only one heinz, in my opinion. I have learned over my 25 years in the business that the world of chemistry is very complex. At Chemspec we are proud of several things we do. Quality is certainly very high on our list. No product is ever packaged that does not meet our pre determined specs. All raw materials must meet specs that we have set up prior to manufacture. We use absolutely no fillers in any product. Fillers are inexpensive materials that add weight or volume, bring the price down but contribute nothing to cleaning In the past, we have refused raw materials that did not meet our specs. We have also not packaged products because they did not meet our standards. In the world of chemicals, it is very easy to contact people and get "a formula" This does mean the product will work to your liking - it just means that it will clean something. Saying that all chemicals are the same is like saying all carpet cleaners are the same. Neither statement holds water. Saying that it is easy to break down and copy chemicals is almost an impossibility. We have products with upwards of 16 or 17 ingredients in them. taking them to a lab and getting them analyized is next to impossible. There are lots of solutions that you can choose from. There are, however, very few chemical companies that employ the high standards that I would assume anyone in this business would like. ------------- Jim Darling |
Posted By: Jim Darling
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 11:24am
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I forgot - Yes Swish does make them own chemicals. They have a large plant located in PETERBOROUGH. They also sell or supply other cleaning solutions as well. ------------- Jim Darling |
Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 6:33pm
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Obviously KK must stick up for consistent quality products or I would be on the street doing magic with my monkey. Just this week one of my customers who left my products for something that appeared better and cheaper. He called me to ask me how he could correct a serious problem that just somehow appeared after he cleaned it. How could it be his fault he said. After I asked him many questions that were getting us nowhere. I said what color is the mess that was created. He said "Yello". I said what is the color and concentration you are using. A LONG PAUSE, then he said Yellow. I think he got the answer and the replacement value of the carpeting is $10,000.00 How much has he really saved? Sooner or later it has been our experience that you will eventually pay-the-price when you go for the inconsistent and unknown. ------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 7:21pm
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Thats why you should just keep it simple...mild soap....mild soap...mild soap ...mild soap I can't say it enough...I test it right on my own skin...if it rashes I don't use it...all you should carry in your truck is ... soap...a solvent for removing ink and waxed based stains....a little brown out(but if you smart you'll never use it for your own jobs), some blood remover. and Haitian cotton...oh yeah Gard and deo... Sorry Jim and Ted...I can't really comment on chem specs standards because I have nothing to compare it to. I know anything can be analyzed and broken right down....you shouldn't have to do that, but the chemical companies don't like to show their ingredients and the percentages...they should but they don't...cuz any other company would be able to make that product.... There's a lot of things that go into making a cleaning solotion...unless your a chemist and can identify each ingredient...who knows whats hurting you from whats not. I care about my own heath...the less chemicals I use, the longer I will live on this planet... My Godfather always said"it's not the song it's the singer" it's not the cheap chemicals it's the user ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: Jim Darling
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 7:34pm
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Stanley Keeping it simple is something I would definitely agree with. As far as ingredient disclosure is concerned my feeling is thyat long term this will change as well. The laws in Canada are such that we have to tell you about any hazardous ingredient that is in a percentage greater than 1%. This is far more than you will ever see from a US MSD sheet. One of the quirks of all laws is that you will never see any perfume listed on any MSD sheet. The funny thing here is that if anyone is chemically sensitive then the perfumes just might be the first thing they are sensitive to. Trying to get info from a perfume supplier is next to impossible. My guess is that products like ECOgent will help change the way people look at things. All it takes is the poilitical will. Any product in the food store must list all ingredients for health and safety reasons. Surely we can't be that far behind ------------- Jim Darling |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 7:48pm
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See Jim thats my back ground food.....and even they don't list everything...trust me I know.... ISO standards......no comment nothing happens until someone gets hurt... I'm not here to shoot down anyone....but everything never gets listed....we play Russian roulette everyday and we don't know it ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 05/April/2004 at 10:37pm
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I tried to stay out of this as long as I could but I have to say something. The chemicals this guy Jackblack or whoever is pushing are not even usable in Toronto without using special dumping procedures. He sent me the MSDS this afternoon on th'e '99' stuff and spotter and they contain butyls and NPEs. You can't even put NPEs down the sanitary sewer system in Toronto legally. There are some other scary looking ingredients on the MSDS, one that said it had a TLV of 3ppm. I'll look at the sheets in the morning and run them through scorecard if I have time. We stick to Chemspec first (Ecogent) and then Masterblend' Responsible Care. The idea that 'soap is soap' is so much bunk.
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Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 06/April/2004 at 8:52am
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On the Torque 1 product it contains Nonyl phenol exthoxylate (NPE). This is material that according to the laws of It also contains butyl cellusolv (cas #111-76-2) On z-99 It also contains nonyl phenol ethoxylates It contains propylene glycol npropyl ether. While not butyl it is in the glycol ether family – definitely stuff that will be on the watch list as it is a neurotoxin. It also contains monoethananolamine. This is an ingredient found in every floor finish stripper. Here is the link to the http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0835.pdf - http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0835.pdf - http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0835.pdf read it carefully – lots of bad stuff, 86.7% volatile. PRC-097 is 0.05%. needless to say a big difference. |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 06/April/2004 at 7:21pm
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it also gets you a 50 buck tip...the restaurant owner can't believe the job you just did... I wouldn't use it for my own health....but I'm sure a lot of other chemical companies do the same darn thing...they just don't put it on the label or the MSDS ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 06/April/2004 at 7:22pm
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Oh my next question is...how would you know if they did or not if it wasn't on the label?????? ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 08/April/2004 at 2:29pm
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see still no one can answer ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 12:00am
| Its because I donèt know what you are talking about! |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 12:12am
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I type a loud a lot don't I......lol I don't even know....lol I think I was talking about correct labeling...and the lack there of...no one lists all the ingredients in their products...why???? ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 8:05am
Water is probably 70% to 80%. It must be heavy water to make the product work. |
Stanley wrote:Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 10:45am
Hey Ted does that stuff really work??? ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 2:39pm
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I THINK STANLEY LIKES TO HIT THE BOTTLE ALOT BEFORE POSTING THINGS HERE.....IT'S AMAZING THE KNOWLEDGE HE HAS REGARDING CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, AND LIFE IN GENERAL..........MUST BE ALL THOSE CHEAP CHEMICALS THAT KEEP GIVING HIM THAT GREAT BUZZ..........NO WONDER HE LIKES THEM SO MUCH........YES STANLEY THE EASTER BUNNY IS REAL AND IT'S ON IT'S WAY TO YOUR HOUSE............... NIGHTRIDER |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 09/April/2004 at 3:11pm
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This could be true....none of my chemicals are cheap....I just get them with out the name attached....I don't want to pay for the name...and Yes Jack the Easter Bunny comes here every year...I clean his fur...repeat customer....lol ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 10/April/2004 at 12:38pm
| After being on the GTA for a couple of Days I sure feel brainwashed. Where do I buy jack's unsafty99? The product that turns carpet into concrete before your very eyes. |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 11/April/2004 at 4:51pm
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Listen sometimes thats what the customer wants.....Kill me and give me clean carpets......They don't care what you use as long as you get it clean.. I told a customer that I'd have to use Gas on her carpet...she said go right a head I'll sign a wavier...lol she didn't let me finish.... gas............................... and a match ------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 11/April/2004 at 9:56pm
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I once had a customer back in the 80's that ran out of her house and spit on my truck, cause I told her to throw her carpet in the garbage or set it on fire to clean it........the weird thing about it all was the fact that she threw $5.00 at me as I was leaving her driveway. NIGHTRIDER |
Posted By: Adwa
Date Posted: 11/April/2004 at 10:22pm
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Lucky she didn't throw five Bricks at you. It's one thing for her to say her carpet is garbage, but if you say it WHAM!!!!!!!! there's no recovering. |
Posted By: nightrider
Date Posted: 12/April/2004 at 1:29am
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ADWA.......Did I ever come across as a diplomat in all my postings........NO..................Did I ever say that I was straight forward and tell it as I see it.........YES I would rather tell the customer straight up , than pretend that I am a miracle worker......I don't need the money that bad and I do not need a headache after the job is finished and she /he is not happy with the outcome. By the way, I got out of my truck, picked up the 5 bucks and gave it to charity........ha ha ha ha ha ....... NO I DIDN'T.........I went to have a businessmans lunchen for $2.95 all you can eat.......How I miss the good old days.........I can still remember paying $1.24 for a businessmans lunchon back in the mid to late 60's. Remember that TED. When gas was 37 cents a gallon. Thats 8 cents a litre. NIGHTRIDER |
Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 12/April/2004 at 6:44am
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Yes this is the way to go...just because we use wands doesn't mean there is any magic
------------- People & Standards You Can Trust |
Posted By: Adwa
Date Posted: 12/April/2004 at 12:09pm
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Jack relax big boy!!!!!!!! I was just giving you some insight into a Women's mind. Your showing your age, I can not remember a business man luncheon so cheap but I sure remember The Happy Hour!!!! |
Posted By: carpetologist
Date Posted: 12/April/2004 at 12:29pm
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Guys & Gals Don't be so hard on our Patriotic Canadian Flag Waver Jackblack. He was first only attempting to be a nice guy and offer free samples of chemicals to any of our posters. Whether the product was toxic or not he once again had very good intentions. If any one should have been upset it should have been myself as he offered free chemicals on my web site. I make my living selling products and just can't compete with free goods. This is also ok as my beliefs is that there is enough for all of us to service. People will switch and change continuously. If they leave me even for free goods that means I have not done my job properly. We all know there is no free lunch. I would be interested in knowing if he actually heed the unhealthy warning sign given to him and stopped using this product or is he working on proving his accusers wrong through third party verification. Just thought I would ask
------------- Kleen Kuip Supply Mart Inc. http://www.kleenkuip.com - New & Used Professional Carpet Cleaning Machines, Restoration Equipment, Training, Service and Supplies |
Posted By: LilNiteRidrhood
Date Posted: 12/April/2004 at 2:24pm
| Or he's dreaming up ways to get back at me. |