Just had a call from one of my old time customers who sent two employee's to our IICRC school. Apparently these newer employee's listened and learned about some of the health effects of carpet cleaning chemicals. Upon their return they refused to use the existing cleaning products provided for them to use.

The law clearly states that any employee's can refuse using what he or she feels detrimental to his health without repercussions or reprimands. The employer must provide a safe alternative or suffer the consequences.

Time's are a changing.

We old timers long ago got a laugh out of the buzz it sometimes gave us. But the newer generation is sticking to the law. And that's a good thing says Martha Stewart.

What are your comments?

The employer is just lucky the Ministry of Labour didn't visit.

The only mention of any products at this seminar is when they wanted the names of three neutral spotters and the name of three A/B solutions.

Don't let your imaginations run wild now.

These guys had brought up the subject with someone (not me) that their lips were turning blue  when using certain chemicals. So someone set them straight. Had nothing to do with the class.

Doug

Seeing as you asked - this situation did involve me so i will tell you how it happened. First of all, it was not at class. After the class I went to ted's shop and a cleaner there was picking up a few gallons of different products. One of the products in question apparently turned his lips blue (that is what he said)

He asked me if they were "green". I said that i did not know but lets look at the MSDS, then go to the Internet to find out safety information that he could then determine for himself.

The Internet provided him information that told him there might be some reactions / concerns.

He then went back to his employer and gave him the info. Nothing was every said derogatory about the product in question, no sales pitches were made. Only thing provided was information from 3rd parties. We also have to keep in mind that people are sensitive to different things. The chemical that bothers me might not bother you and vice versa.

For any employer out there in Canada you may need to be aware of the Supreme Court case known as the "MEORIN case" The bottom line is that every employer must do everything possible to look out for the rights of each employee - EVEN TO THE POINT OF UNDUE HARDSHIP.

I hope this answers your question  

Ted;

If I understood everything properly, I think it is total nonsense that even more rights are taken away from owners of businesses. It has almost gotten to the point where the employees have more legal rights in the running of the operation, than the Owner who puts his money on the front line.

The employee has the right to either work and agree with the standards and ethics of that particular business; or leave it if it is not to his/her liking. It is that simple.

The people who sugest or make these laws are normally those whom have never Owned a business themselves. They have no idea or concept.

That is MHO.

Good Fortune to all;

Ed Valentine

cross-american corp.

As Lee said all you need is to have a visit from the Ministry of labour if one of your employees ever complains to them.

Ed in Canada our laws are somewhat different than those in the USA, and yes I do agree being a small business owner iand having employees is no fun.

If in fact the chemicals turned this guys lips blue, than there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

I read from time to time people complaining about chemicals causing them to cough, and the supplier replying by saying just use a bigger tip in your sprayer and that will solve the problem. The problem is if it causes you to cough than I don't care about changing tips in my sprayer, I should be concerned as to what is in the product to protect my employees and the people in the buildings we clean.

It is my duty as the business owner.

Ted..........What law is this, where would I find it, or is it a law that you & Jim Darling are mustering up to promote sales of your detergent FREE  miracle cleaner...........nice ...........The best way into selling a new product is  " Scare your customers into submission " Jim......what does the Meorin Case have to do with any of this stuff.

                                              Nightrider

It's so easy to come up with a reason to fire somebody. No employee is perfect and in Canada if it is NOT a union shop you don't have to give a reason why you let them go (as long as you pay them what they are due) So I say to Mr. Blue Lips YOU ARE FIRED seeeee Yahhhh and I wouldnt wanna be ya!

nightrider,

Nice to see you coming in from time to time to keep us on the straight and narrow. We all miss you. We need your inspiration, sarcasm and sharp whit.

As to our new D.F.C. product I doubt too many carpet cleaners will jump from their kick-a** stuff. But I will bet my bottom dollar if your customers tell you that you only get the job if you can prove safe, allergy free cleaning they will be in to buy D.F.C. guaranteed.

This thread has so much bull in it.

Nightrider---- the law is called WHMIS. Under the WHMIS legislation all hazardous chemicals must be identified and controlled. All hazards must be explained, an MSDS made available and the appropriate PPE provided.

Further to this it is a worker's right to refuse dangerous work and it is unlawful to discipline or fire an employee while he exercises this right in Ontario.

Ed- You have the same laws. In the States you do have the right to fire the employees. However they could sue you for allowing them to use hazardous chemicals without their knowledge. You could also be written up by OSHA for not having a written Hazard Communication Program and a list of other related infractions.

It is most unfortunate than less than 10% of the carpet cleaning industry knows the laws that govern us, let alone abide by these laws.

Don't be fooled, a hazard must be identified to all those who MAY come into contact with them.

you have to get caught breaking the rules first....  really ther is no enforcement...  how can they enforce it....

you need not worry about any of these regulation unless you have an accident of some kind..

thats the only way these regulations are enforced.  when you blow up a building or kill someone.

it's a walkerton world that we live in

LilNiteRidrHood ( General lee ) I am well aware of " WHMIS " I was merely tickling Ted's and Jim's rib-cage & making a sarcastic remark. But with that said, you know as well as I, that those laws & agreements are so full of holes you can drive a tank through it. I am mostly in maintenance and the majority of people who work for me can't even speak english, let alone read it. On any given contract I show them what chemical to use, dilution ratio, and supply a data sheet and caution labels on all containers If someone gets sick because they thought the label said drink it, that's too bad........because there's another language law that says all information must be in either or both of the 2 official languages. In Quebec FRENCH ONLY, so if they don't learn French " You're sh*t out of luck " and WHMIS AIN'T WORTH sh*t. when was the last time any inspector came to see you or your employees making sure that you're respecting all their laws. General Lee this is just another loosing battle for you and the good guys. You're a stand up kina guy General, I wish the world was made up of people like you, I might have turned out better. But even you General won't lose a buck if you have to bend the law a little........Right.

                                    Nightrider