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Recoiling over the Recoil

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Michael View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2010 at 10:58pm
I like reading about different machines and getting a okay birds-eye-view of what's out there. Unless I've had a chance to mess with one, though, I only have impressions. That's not enough. I want one that's easily available with good manufacturer support. I have a Mytee because both the supplier and builder are local. To the average end user, most of the issues brought up in this thread mean much less than those two factors. That said, I will chime in that having a stubborn layer of water in the waste tank irritates the crap out of me.
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Ed Valentine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Valentine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 9:23am
I love the way some of these guys hide behind a name like: "Grutzy".
 
You few "Lap Dogs" are something else stating all the BS about what a low quality machine the RECOIL is. However, the truth of the matter is and the most important thing here is that "the other" machines have been proven on the boards to have many problems.  BUT NOT THE RECOIL. Humm, I wonder why such a lower quality machine wouldn't have great problems. I wonder why a lower quality machine would have so darn much support from its Operators. And, I wonder why Cross-American has been in this Industry selling all over the World for so many years, (34 years), or why the Competition has been (trying) to ride our coattails?
 
Hummm. Grutzy, I suggest that you go back to your Leader and ask for a newer strategy because this ones getting old.
 
But, then again, you are wasting my time and the valuable input that others may be looking for here. And, although I do know ---who you really are because you have given away several key elements here--- please remember this:
 
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~
 
Yep, that sounds like you.
 
very best to all and I must apologize for this idiot because this is a great board;
Ed Valentine
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Soil Lint Green View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soil Lint Green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 11:29am
Let's hold his hand and point him back to TMF which for him is a sandbox called Too Much Fun.  He knows nothing about carpet cleaning, little about the equipment used, nothing about the engineering of the equipment and chemicals, and probably resents the fact that he was sold down the river into some overpriced gas guzzling gross polluter he thinks does a better job at cleaning carpet than the top rated portable.  And he actually talks like his Mytee is on par with Cross-American?  Someone should check for an exhaust leak in his boat anchor of a rig.
It's ORY GUN, not OR A GONE. Learn to talk.
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John L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 12:08pm
 HATE: not a virus nor a germ. Its a disease. And its rampant in this world.
You can find it almost everywhere the next time you look in the mirror! Stern Smile
 
Also:
jealousy
fear of the competition.. Any more you would like to add?
 
Soil would you quit say that? I love my TM.
and my recoil
and my 175
and  my dog
and my Girl........... Banana Dance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TA152H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 12:52pm

Ed,

You know, reading your posts has shown an interesting pattern, and I'll give you some friendly advice, or really remind you of something you already know.

When you start calling people idiots, despite what you think you're saying, you're calling yourself one.  You look smaller by using childish insults, even if you think they are deserved.  Don't lose your composure or dignity anymore, it does not help your business at all.  I wouldn't buy from someone that threw around childish insults.

Also, based on your, at best, remedial command of English, I would say he's probably smarter than you.  Stay away from that argument, and stick to the machine.  There's nothing good for you there.

I'm guessing from your design choices, you'd never own stock, and would rather keep your money in a bank, where it's guaranteed.  Your machine is built that way.  I guess you figure that's quality, and I guess I can understand it, even though I don't agree with it.  You made very conservative choices, because you value the machine working all the time as being very, very critical, and in as many situations as possible, at the expense of performance.  It seems your choices for vacuum motors were dominated by fear of blowing circuits.  After all, if the machine isn't working, you can't make money, and that's what it's all about.  

But, on the other hand, a more powerful vacuum system saves a lot of time, and there are generators for those stubborn situations where electrical conditions simply aren't cooperating.  

I'm also confused why you'd add a two-stage booster in parallel, when this should lower the lift of the machine, which already is the weakness.  I know this makes sense from an electrical perspective - use it when electrical situations permit, but I'm curious why you didn't choose a low amperage higher lift vac (at the expense of CFM), so wouldn't lose lift at all, and gain some, while still gaining (albeit less) CFM.

I know you don't want to offer a more powerful version because it would make your existing one less appealing, and I'm sure with your conservative nature, you'd prefer that to be your main product.  Also, the tanks buckling in probably place some limit on the power, but, at the same time, there is a benefit to selling a more powerful machine to people that really want it.  

So, I think I found something that might be useful.  I'm sure the body could handle a good 20% more power (the guy that was worried about buckling went considerably higher), and probably 30%.  Now, you wouldn't want this on your website because I'm sure you don't want this as your main machine ( how many people would want the "weaker" machine, after all), so I suggest you sell this machine as a special order only.  Don't advertise it on the website, unless you want to just mention machines can be custom configured, and then have people call you for more information.  This way you'd have a good idea if it makes sense.  You could also make it known on forums this higher powered machine could be sold, and again you'd have the benefit of talking to the person and ascertaining if it makes sense, without creating buyer reluctance towards your main machine, for people buying from the internet.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canoer5222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 2:32pm
TANK,
    YOU ALSO WERE ALSO ASKED TO SHOW TMF ALL YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF CARPET CLEANING ETC. WITH THEIR "EXPERT" .HE EVEN SAID HE WOULD COME TO YOU !!!I SUPPOSE YOU WERE A NO-SHOW ALSO.
   NO-SHOW JUST LIKE YOUR PROFILE!!
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Ed Valentine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Valentine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 2:46pm
TA152H ,
 
I can see that you are one of those guys who are trying to be an "Arm-Chair" engineer at the expense of others, especially the unsuspecting and potential Operator(s) who spend their hard earn money for future success, instead of disappointment. And, it is most interesting that it is alright for you to throw arrows at us or the thousands of satisfied operators of Cross-American equipment, but it is not fair that we throw them back. Hummm. Wonder why?!
 
It is very evident that you do not know or  are not aware of the true value of the proper industrial design---from flipping the switch-to-the- wand, or the energy requirements and/or limits as we do.
 
We will continue as we always have, in the development of the most efficient system ever developed way beyond the negative BS our competitors or yourself may spew in a losing effort to discredit those who strive to be the very best in this great Industry of ours. Your words above are deplorable and contain many many "Assumptions" that are so darn misleading that you, sir, are showing your ignorance in abundance.
 
Finally, I see that you have a pattern of making your way around to different boards ( & using different handles to hide behind), that will put up with you for a while. However, weren't you kicked off the ics bb?
 
Realize one thing: You may love to be a negative person and throw the BS however, we are not going away. SO, go develop your so called "Dynomite" machine. Just let us know when you're ready to turn it on so we can all run!
 
Very best to all;
Ed Valentine
 
 
 
 
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TA152H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TA152H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 8:44pm

Ed,

I don't know what you're talking about, but that's probably because you're wrong about something.

I don't really know what ICS is, other than I've heard it's a forum as well.  So, to answer your question directly, no.

If you weren't a paranoid little man, you'd realize I wasn't being negative.  I don't even want you to go away, I want you to make a better machine.  That's my only motive.

People often view other's actions through their own eyes, and bestow motivation based on that, so you pretty clearly indicate what your motives would be.  But, I have no motivation beyond what I've said.  

I've answered your question directly, why can't you answer mine?  Can't you answer one question directly, instead of your normal vague nonsense?  Do you think no one notices that you can't answer a question?  

Lastly, I don't have a problem with you arguing with people, but when you start calling them idiots, that's where it gets childish.  You don't see the difference?  In reality, you're  not a smart guy at all, and you'd be calling someone an idiot?  Seems kind of strange.  Why take it to that level?  That's like a 5'4" man that can't jump turning something into a slam-dunk contest.  

Canoer, I have no idea what you're talking about.  I don't really read that forum much, because it doesn't work with my browser well (Opera), but I'm pretty sure you're making it up, since the admins on that board were the ones that concluded the performance of the Recoil was relatively poor, and even offered to prove it by paying for a unit to be shipped to them.  And since I never claimed to be an expert, and I'm not in conflict with their beliefs, I'd be forced to conclude you're wrong.  I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 9:05pm
Although I am not an advocate of Mr Valentine's retro portable extractor, called the Recoil, I can respect his passion and emotionalism that he has expressed here today. While his anger is evident, lets not jump to conclusions and identify this as just another internet meltdown. I honestly think he believes in his Recoil, in the context that he wants it to establish itself at the top of the industry. However, deep down inside, he knows of its flaws and is stressed out over these issues becoming common industry knowledge.
 
I believe that he wants to improve the machine. Anybody can see his competitive nature and that is a good thing. However, it is very expensive to do a complete overhaul of his present design and as frustrating as this must be to Mr Valentine, it is beyond his financial means. So what can he do? This is a common struggle in business. Most businesses need more money to improve but how is that possible in such an economy and no doubt, Cross America has suffered some sales woes since the tmforum shootout. Since that time, Locko has critized the Recoil even more when its lack of vacuum power yielded him in a nightmare on a commercial job. Why didn't Locko consider Mr Valentine's sensitive situation before publicizing this information? Well, the cat is out of the bag now and I can understand Ed's frustration and fruitless anger. This sort of bad press has hurt Mr Valentine and despite being called an "idiot" by the angry man, I feel sympathy for him. He is in a tough situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Soil Lint Green Soil Lint Green wrote:

Let's hold his hand and point him back to TMF which for him is a sandbox called Too Much Fun.  He knows nothing about carpet cleaning, little about the equipment used, nothing about the engineering of the equipment and chemicals, and probably resents the fact that he was sold down the river into some overpriced gas guzzling gross polluter he thinks does a better job at cleaning carpet than the top rated portable.  And he actually talks like his Mytee is on par with Cross-American?  Someone should check for an exhaust leak in his boat anchor of a rig.
 
Make up your mind. Do I have a Mytee or a "gas guzzler"? When I see a porty user crying like a b1tch like this, it is an obvious sign of jealousy. Portables can do a good carpet cleaning job in many situations but they are undoubtedly lacking the cleaning power of a mid to high level truckmount. That is a fact and it seems to be something that you are having trouble coming to terms with. Don't get angry at me because of it. I actually have some portables as well as truckmounts and I like using a portable. I understand that when I use one, I have to overcome the deficiencies in comparison to a tm.
 
By the way, Mytee builds a far superior portable to the Recoil and that is a fact also. I am not being negative and like I said in an earlier post, I am willing to help Mr Ed build a better portable and my only request for payment would be to receive a free one once it is completed. I don't think that is asking too much and I know exactly where the machine needs to be improved (lots of areas for sure). Some of the changes would not even be expensive. Of course, the most challenging problem is the weakness of the body. However, lots of other issues can me improved for not that much money and I would be willing to help him in this cause.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TA152H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 9:26pm

It's nice you have sympathy for the man, but what about Locko?  He was compromised by the sub-standard performance of this machine, and not for the first time.  That's a really lousy feeling to be stuck in, especially by a machine that's so expensive.

Also, I've given him a good solution for his problems, but instead of looking into it, he gets defensive and angry.

No doubt his sales are tanking based on his responses here.  Happy people don't throw tantrums like this, so he's obviously stressed out.  But, that doesn't give him an excuse to be so dreadfully ugly in his posts.  His temper tantrums are downright effeminate.

I don't want to see him go out of business, but unless he can realize what a weak product he's got, and then work to improve it, he's going to be in big trouble.  This is the internet age, and he's still trying to use disinformation and obfuscation to keep people off-balance, and hide the inherent inferiority of what he's selling.  

He's got to be more honest and open, or he'll keep going down.  He might be too old (maybe even a dotard) to turn this ship around in time.  If so, he's got to turn the company over to someone more competent and forward thinking, who won't reminisce about older days, and instead make improvements.

Disinformation and a very loyal customer base are both valuable assets in his situation, but it's dangerous to rely on them completely.  You need a good product too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grutzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 9:33pm

You have a point about Locko. I think he wrote that post on the evening that he returned home from that business fiasco, a woozy and beaten man. I don't think I have ever seen a man so angry at a machine before...LOL. Apparently he left the carpet soaked and felt horribly about it.

 
I agree that Mr Ed V gets very angry and that sort of thinking is not conducive to improvement. I can also understand his financial struggles getting in the way of improvement but I think the machine can be improved in many areas at a low cost, if he would only become receptive to those who are trying to help him. After all, we are all in this business together and there is no need for such in-fighting.
 
You might also have a point about his age becoming an obstacle. Older people tend to be very stubborn and he has certainly showed signs of this. Some of my older customers refuse to get a computer and use the internet, if you can believe that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soil Lint Green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 11:33pm
Now about your girl, you got me there.  I AM JEALOUS.Evil Grin


It's ORY GUN, not OR A GONE. Learn to talk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soil Lint Green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2010 at 11:42pm
Somebody invite the truckmount whores TA and Grut to go back to their board where they are welcome and stay off this one where trouble makers are made into body bag fillings.  Their objective is quite clear and their origins are known by everyone here.  And from this point forward we agree to ignore any thread they feel compelled to add a useless post.

It seems it is not only Ed they target, the success of this board globally has hit the TMF pretty hard right where it counts --- in the pocketbook.  Boo Hoo for them.Baby
It's ORY GUN, not OR A GONE. Learn to talk.
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