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Part-Timer Looking to go Bigtime!

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    Posted: 26/November/2006 at 2:37pm
Since gmoney and Diva are too busy to participate in the Forum these days I will speak for them.
 
Yes, they are busy but no they are not yeat a multiple crew operation. Although they should be because of the quality they offer. They way I see it there are two things holding them back.
 
A. They charge higher than average prices and it takes time to get clients to recognize the difference.
 
B. They have the same challenge as the total GTA carpet cleaners. Employees...should I say more?
 
I must thank gmoney for introducing me to the Accelerator that I now sell. I am extremely pleased as are the cleaners that I have sold it to.
 
If you wish to make better than average money cleaning open-areas and hallways with a one-man simple operation you should take a look or take a test drive. It can be seen on this site or in our showroom.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennis_is_ok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/November/2006 at 1:07am
Well how's it going now? Do you have a "multi-man" operation yet?

Originally posted by gmoney gmoney wrote:

  Just dropping by to say hi and that this wonderful world of carpet cleaning has supported me through high school and university.  Throughout the years I have been in and out of the business but now have a renewed desire to build it beyond a one man operation.


I know, I have a long way to go.  Just looking to get a few pointers from the masters on this site ( whomever you may be)!  And offer my two cents whenever I get inspired. 


    
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Diva: I already have them finished. Just waiting for the right-time for introduction. As you pointed out, I have many other products already coming out betwen now and November, without needing to add more to it. If they are needed in the marketplace, I will introduce them at the right time.In life, timing is everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/September/2004 at 10:49pm

Hey Ken

It seems like you'll be soooooooooooo busy working on your "new" and "Improved" SUPER GLIDES that you'll have no time to invent SUPER PADS!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/September/2004 at 12:59pm
Good ideas you put forth there, Gmoney. I will get working on that. Thanks for the excellant advice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/September/2004 at 9:29am

I'll be visiting Ted sometime next week and will see if I can test out one of your glides.  Besides my ability to play Devil's advocate with you, I have a pretty good marketing head.  Feel free to bounce some ideas off me and you know I will not hesitate to put my two cents in!

You should devise some sort of a professional looking poster that Ted can post in his store so customers have an 'in your face' introduction to your glides.  The poster would maybe have your mug shot cleaning carpet and a bubble caption coming from your mouth with all of your informercial points!  This way everyone that walks in his shop is exposed to the product and will approach Ted about what the product is all about.

I think my marketing services can go a long way on this board if I learn to post informercials as effectively as you!

If you know what is good for you get it dry as quickly as possible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/September/2004 at 11:05am

Thanks again for your response, Gmoney. BTW, I did send Ted one of my latest SSU802 glides already 3 weeks ago, before I even started posting  in earnest here. I figured if I was going to talk about them, I better have one on hand that people can look at and try. Ted has been letting people take it out and test it out for themselves.Hasn't caused much of a stir yet, but maybe most here are not aware yet that they can do that.

 

A high performance portable on short hose and low pressure can dry carpet faster than most TMs. When we tested the RDM  and SS Superglide at Kleen Kuip last October, it was with a Ninja. Dry time was under 30 minutes. I even layed on the carpet being cleaned after that to show that at least on the low pile commercial carpet we used, it was dry to the back to and no moisture could be seen oor felt doing that.

 

I never looked at my chart to calculate flow when I said that BTW. Just a fast off the top of my head estimation. I should be more careful next time.That undermines what I say if I don't be more accurate. You are right about that.

 

The Power-Dri System, when released, has the power to change the way the WD business is done. It will only work with PTO TMs at this point. It would also require alot of capital to distribute in the very large US market. This is beyond my resources right now, and would mean that I would need to drop everything else I am working on to do it, which I wont do. The introduction of our new glides to transform how carpet cleaning is done is my main priority now, and is taking up most of my time. But I could afford to launch the Power-Dri into Canada next year if the interest is there. That is much more doable in both money terms and my time commitement required to do it. Since I designed it around the Cleanco TM, and most are here, that seems an easier way to go. Once established here, the money and infrastructure would be in place to start the US introduction after that.

Looking forward to your comments as the process unfolds in the months to come, and as the testimonials come in.

 

 

Superglide Ken

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/September/2004 at 9:29am

I am anxiously awaiting the feedback from Doug and Mr. Steamer.  Nothing convinces people more than direct observation and qualified testimonials.  Of course I will not take your glide wand achieving drying times quicker than a drimaster until I see for myself because of what I have seen the RDM do.  It's like all the times over the years that a chemical salesman makes grandiose claims about what their chemical can do and then when I use it I am dissapointed.  Why don't you send one down to Ted and so all of us in the GTA can see for ourselves; instead of having to rely only on the word of two individuals.  Now that would cause quite a stir on this board if you decided to do that. 

I still think you are incorrect on your calculations regarding the RDM and glide wand because the undeniably tight seal it forms with the carpet in my opinion obviously does not adversely affect the air flow.  When Ted showed me the unit a while back even he told me that my high performance portable would leave the carpet drier than a truck mount.  And it does (when using the RDM).  Much less chance of wick backs as well.

I like how you tried to explain your way around the psi doubling issue we had.  If you knew the relationship between psi and water flow rate why did you have to refer to your chart?  And you have illustrated that  saying doubling psi will double flow rate when trying to make a point is an unacceptable oversimplification.  If flow rate doubles only after the psi is increased by a factor of 4, then your previous arguement is flawed. 

Regarding hydramaster incorporating pressure reduction into the RDM I have not had a chance to call; but I will.  You will be the first to know what the answer is.

I must say Ken, I enjoy our discussions because you get me thinking about the possibilities out there that can improve our industry.  My focus in my business has been more intense lately as a result of this board (thank you Ted) and your impassioned posts (thanks Ken).  Yeah, I did thank you for something.  Don't let it get to your head; although I'm not holding out hope for that! 

I'm actually curious about your power dri system since your claims regarding this technique has me looking forward hearing more about it.

Preparing myself for informercial #4567-65!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/September/2004 at 2:22pm

Gmoney: Like I said, I could tell by your post that you were far from a Newbie to this industry. I was not refering to you being a Newbie to this board when I said it. Thanks for clearing up a little of your background. I don't hide any of mine, but I will give you the benefit of any doubt why you don't use your real name. Perhaps to do so would prevent you from being as candid with your comments here. I would not want that to happen. I figgered you were from the GTA when I said I think I know who you are, so I am not surprised to hear you say that.

 

As far as hearing from people on this board about my glides, you may be a little disappointed in the lack of response. It is still a very new product that has mostly been sold in the USA marketplace so far. I think that maybe all of 40 have been sold into Canada so far. A few on the board have them, but only  2 that I know for sure. Steamin Pile has our latest and has posted that it glides and cleans well. I am sending out a glide to Doug and Steamer so that others here can comment as well. I certainly don't want them to remain a secret to Canadians. I actually did test an SS glide against a Drimaster machine  at Kleenkuip last October while I was in town. There was about 10 cleaners present at the time. While not scientific by any means, most of those that were present agree that the glide left the carpet drier than the RDM. No moisture meter used, just feel on the fingers. I supose I will need to do it with instruments to convince you of that though.

 

I don't deny for a minute that my posts are written as infomercials BTW. It is a style that allows me to both inform and obtain sales for my products at the same time. Many people tell me that they like it. A few do not. The ability to scroll is a wonderful thing for those that do not.

 

We both share the interest in science and physics it seams. That was always my top subject. I have a pressure chart, but even without it I know that to double flow you must square(4X) the pressure. The flow at 200 psi will not double till 800 psi is used. I was just simplefing to make a point understandable to others reading this was all. You have not disproved  my pounds/sq inch theory at all. If you read what I said again, I covered both the surface area covered by the cleaning devices contact points with the carpet and the weight of the wand or RDM on those points. Each produces a distinctive number roughly in line with the rounded number I used to illustrate my point.

 

I enjoy your input here Gmoney, and can see that we agree on far more than we disagree on after our conversation  here. It is good to have a fellow technical person to talk to. On many of the boards I post on, many of my technical posts go over many readers heads, so it is good that I don't have to worry about that with you. I am still much of a novice in marketing  and look forward to learning a few things here as well. Not rich yet for sure, but I believe that better marketing in future will take care of that. All equipment mentioned on this board does exist and does produce the results I post about. Sometimes they do not do it consistanly enough for me to bring them to market yet in a big way. Being the perfectionist that I am, anything big that has the potential to revolutionize the WD industry like the Power-Dri system does, must be just right before I realease it. I have kept it to myself for 7 years now ,till I spent that time to get it right. When released, it will be in the industry mags and I will be there too. Being the super persistant person that I am, I will keep at it till it happens.But, I do not knowwhat time that will be.

 

In life, timing is everything.

 

 

Superglide Ken



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/September/2004 at 12:46pm

Ken I have to say I admire your spunk.  Thanks for your latest infomercial by the way!  Before I get all hot headed let  me say that my only goal in continuing this dialogue with you is to bring out the FACTS and make this board as productive and educational as possible.  And a little debating never hurt anyone; much safer than weapons of mass destruction! An expert I am not and that is why I am on this board; to learn as much as I can. 

The one that has to do the proving is YOU not me.  I told you to have your current clients speak up in your defense regarding the drying times of all your innovations.  This I have not seen still.  Toot your own horn as much as you want but SHOW me and I'll be satisfied.  Why don't you send a glide down to Ted this week and I'll invite those from the board in the GTA and local media to witness it going head to head with a drimaster.  That would make me a believer since you already said it can achieve faster drying times.  

You should also be a millionaire already if you can dry a carpet in 10 minutes and and a water logged underpadding in 1 hr.  And if you are not, then we should talk about your marketing strategy and funding structure.  Their should be feature stories on you and your 'innovations' in the local newspaper, industry publications and the like.  I could go on and on, but I digress. Sorry, that is the salesman talking again.  

Now lets clarify my identity.  You know what they say   Their are a couple of people that you might thnk I am because of your interaction with them on other boards but I assure you are wrong.  I live in Toronto and buy chemicals off of Ted at Kleen Kuip and talk with him often.  In fact, if you read one of my previoius posts refering to an ancient Clarke machine, it was purchased from Ted about 15 years ago. 

This brings me to my next point.  I am a newbie on the board (the first I became part of) but not in this industry.  My IICRC certications have been acquired through Ted and Chemspec. 

And stop ignoring what I saying.  I was the one that said their is no shame in attempting to improve on an innovation because Microsoft did it with their Internet Explorer.

And I was the one that said I was going to be using a pile lifter to remove the dry dirt and then a pre spray to loosen the soils that are adhering to the carpet fibre prior to extraction, bonneting or padding.  This is my method, I do not care if most carpet cleaners don't do it.  So don't try and reword what I just said claim it as your own.  I'm starting to see a pattern here Ken!

Now lets get technical.  You cannot be over technical with me Ken so give me your best shot.  Since you are vocal about your mechanical egineering background I will tell you mine. I have a degree in the sciences from university and I'm well schooled in physics (one of my favourite subjects).

Let me school you on water consumption and PSI.  Doubling the PSI does NOT double your flow rate.  There is a slight increase but it is not directly proportional.  Enough said. 

I'll contact hydramaster and see if your claims of built in pressure reduction are valid.  So you are telling me that if I was to dial up 500 psi on the drimaster it automatically cuts my psi half!  Like I said I will call the manufacturer and get back to you on that one.

Now I think I need to explain to you a little bit about seal and lbs/square inch.  Two of the main variables that seal is dependent upon is the amount of surface area in contact with surface in question and the amount of force (lbs/square inch) exerted upon that surface.  The weight of the drimaster coupled with the amount of surface area (validated by you I might say) in contact with the carpet ensures a tight seal.  Like I said before you need a delicate balance of seal and lift.  You also support my argument because despite all of the drimaster's shortcomings (seal, airflow etc)  it still outperforms a wand and wand plus glide.  And I repeat again, this is with the trigger being pressed constantly.  Which proves your theory on cfm:lbs/sq inch ratio incorrect.  Time to go back to the drawing board Ken.  When you get it right I will be the first one to applaud you.

You need to pick your battles more selectively.  Once you heard me mention drimaster in my previous post you were all over that like flies to -----!  Why?  Oh yeah, informercial time. 

Then you thought your technical talk would impress me and the others on this board.  Like I said before, you are knowldgeable and your knowledge is an asset to our industry.  But I will speak up when I feel you are not giving the other board members 'the straight goods'.   

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

      

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/September/2004 at 2:41pm

You mean you were not being direct with me before , Gmoney?

 

Well Gmoney, you will not get any information from me here that is not of a factual nature, because that would be counter-productive to the points I am trying to make.So what is an outragious claim that you think I am making? I will give you that the style I write in sometimes(mostly) is definatly that of a salesman, but there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is based on the facts. You say stop the bull; I say prove one thing that I have written on this board that is not the truth! You have on the other hand said a few things that are not true, and are most likely based on ignorance of the facts that I shall be happy to explain to set the facts straight.Some  of these things are not germain to the discussion at hand, but since they touch on my credibility as a  spokesman here, I will cover them anyway.

 

First, regarding inventions. There is very little that is absolutly new. Most inventions are but refinements of all that has gone before. I did not invent glides for wands; PMF did that. But I refined the shape of glides to make the Superglide. The Superglide is superior to the flat glide because of that shape. The rounded bottom puts the vacuum slot closer to the carpet back where the water lays, thus removing more of it and allowing faster drying. The round shape also prevents the glide from locking down on the carpet like the flat glides do. Those 2 characteristics make the device very worthwhile. I did not invent the rotary air duct cleaning system either. Roto-Brush had a cable driven model long before I started selling my system in the US marketplace in 1999. Cleanco was selling a non rotary system before that as well. But it is a fact that most observers today say I improved on both those systems, and offer a more economical system for carpet cleaners to use in the process. Nothing wrong with that either.

 

I never said a pile lifter was not the most efficient tool for getting dry soil out of a carpet did I? That is true, but all soil in a capet is NOT dry. Even if it were all dry, you should know that over 99% of all cleaners will never use one. Heck, some industry studies say that over 90% of all carpet cleaners never use a vacuum cleaner on the job, so there is not much hope for pile lifters!Industry figures place the average dry soil component at 79% of what is there. The remaining 21% is classifed as OILY soils. Being a Newbie to the biz, you might not have known that. Oily soils bind to the face fibers of the carpet and are not easily removed by even a pile lifter.They also hold a fair amount of the dry soil too by binding to the fibers so that over time, less and less of the overall soil load in the carpet becomes removeable by the homeowners vacuum. Thus the appearance degrads over time. That is why we cleaners have jobs in this industry. I would not want it any other way, would you? They must be emulsified by preconditioners to get them out. That is also why we have dwell times. It is also the reason that you need to use water to the carpets back, not just its tips, because after the preconditioner is applied and allowed 15 minutes to dwell, alot of it goes to the back. Gravity is a bitch sometimes.

 

Drimaster does not shoot water at 500 psi or anything like that pressure. There is a pressure reduction built into it just like the Hydroforce sprayer has, to bring the pressure down. You can prove this to yourself by connecting either 200 psi pressure to it or a hydroforce and measuring the water consumtion used.Use a graduated bucket to do this. Do the same with either of these at 500 psi and measure consumption. The 2 volumes will be very simular. If there was no restriction built in, the 500 psi pressure would have provided almost double the water of the 200 psi pressure. That is why your statement that the RDM must be getting the carpet back wet rings false. At 500 PSI that would be true, but not if the effective pressure were only half that on low volume, which it is.

 

Nobody said that there is not a delecate balance between seal and airflow. There is. Our glides deliver that balance automatically by virtue of their shape. Regular wands do not. Because of the thin metal lips on them, the surface area they rest on deliver high lift when they lock down to the carpet, but little airflow. For the most effective cleaning you need a balance of both under working conditions.Measured in inches of water lift the lift number should be close to the cfm number. But that is not what happens on a regular wand and TM. Commonly you will see 100 cfm airflow with close to 200"WL, a 1:2 ratio.  With portables it gets even worse. Most portables produce only about 30 cfm on the carpet at 150"WL! that is a 1:5 ratio.The glides correct that on the TM, bringing cfms up to meet the lift figure so that they are much closer to the 1:1 ratio you are looking for. The ratio will not get that good on a portable machine ,but will be better than the 1:5, with the glide on it.

The situation with the RDM in this sense is just the opposite on the steel wand. The RDM has so much surface area resting on the carpet, that it can not form as tight a seal to the carpet as either the regular wand or a glide wand. It is simple . The weight of the machine divided by the surface area resting on the carpet gives a value of only about 1 lb /sq inch, vs the 2 lb per square inch the glide wand has or the 5 to 10 lb per inch that regular wands have.5 to 10 lbs per inch restricts airflow, 1 lb per inch lowers lift too much, IMO.Like the 3 bears and the oatmeal, it is good to get it just right. 2 lbs per inch allows both good lift and good airflow. 1 pound per sq inch does NOT form a tight seal. Tight enough to clean perhaps, but much more effective for producing high cfms. Point made.

 

The above not withstanding, many cleaners like the machine, and I have never argued that point with anyone. Only thing I said here is that I am not one of them. It has nothing to do with the fact that I make glides that essentially compete with it. Because of the cost difference alone, I would buy the glide over this machine even if they were made by anyone else besides me. But I do realize there is a market out there for both cause some people just plain want a powered machine that can do what the RDM can do. That is fine with me. I know that my glides will get their share of the market too, and because more than 80% of cleaners use wands exclusively, that will still be alot of sales.

 

Regarding my carpet cleaning business(s). The problem with reading info from a post here and a post there, is you do not get the whole picture unless you read them all. That is the case here. Aqua-Jet Carpet Cleaning was sold last August to my 3 nephews. It was in business for 23 years in total(1980 to 2003). At that point in time, it was primarily a WD business doing over 60%of its biz from that source.3 trucks went with the sale.They took all the WD business and most of the carpet cleaning customers I did not want. I also have a higher end carpet cleaning company(Calgary's highest priced cleaner), Caremor Carpet Care that has been running as long. Since I needed a TM to keep testing products, and have some customers that pay me very well for over 20 years now, I kept that one, and rolled the customers I kept from Aqua-Jet into that company. In Caremor we charge .50/sq ft for regular furnished cleaning.This is done with a Superglide wand and delivers about 1 hr dry times.In fact we advertise that 1 hr dry time, and use it as our USP. Nobody else useing HWE can offer the same service in this city. If the customer wants protector, the rate goes up to .75 per ft. But we also offer the POWER-DRI for any room for an additional .25 per ft. That brings the rate up to $1.00/sq ft. Most people that get it, only get the LDH or perhaps the Family room done this way. Only people that get a whole house done this way is people needing to move in and cant wait for the carpet to dry. You know the type; moving van waiting out front when you get there.For those that want scotchgard on the carpet before they move in, this is the only way to both dry and cure it in only 10 minutes per room so that they can have it. I use the POWER-DRI in basement  WD too, like broken water heaters or washing machine hoses, where the source is clean water and am able to dry the carpet and pad totally in under an hour. This is where the greatest use will be in future IMO.

 

Well, I hope this clears up a few points for you Gmoney. I must say that you do sound like the most knowledgeable Newbie that I have ever corresponded with on the boards the last 3 years I have been doing this.That covers thousands of posts BTW.I really don't mind you asking questions about anything you are not sure of, but do not call me a liar about what I post here unless you come here with more than opinions, and have actual facts to back it up. Cause I have plenty, and will use them on anybody that says otherwise.

 

Regards and Best Wishs in your Full-Time career,whatever that is. Because I don't think for a minute that you are really a newbie. I have talked to industry vetrans for too many years not to recognize one when I debate one, either in person or on the boards. But writing under a name that is not your own and not filling out a profile gives one that luxury doesn't it?I do have a good idea who you are though, but for now will keep that opinion to myself. Unlike you, I wont say what I think unless I am fairly positive of my facts. lol

 

 

Superglide Ken



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/September/2004 at 11:57am

Well, well, well,

Ken it is time for me to be more direct.  I will give you credit as a resourceful salesman that always has an axe to grind and embellishes to the 'nth' degree.  I have been doing a little research myself and it is a known fact that you use posts and carpet cleaners' forums to market your current or up and coming 'inventions'.  A word of advice, be careful what you claim is your 'invention'.  There is no shame in taking a concept and trying to improve on it; Microsoft did it with the Windows Explorer browser. 

You have a fairly good understanding of the technology in the industry but lose the power of your arguement with your outrageous claims.  Cut the bull.  Honesty is the best way to go (most of the time).  I have been in many sales jobs myself and we all have stretched the truth a bit; the customer expects that. 

You know as well as I do that nothing will remove more dry dirt from the base of the carpet than a pile lifter.  If this step is performed, blasting the carpet backing at 500 psi and trying to now pull up more of the dry dirt is a exercise in futility.  At this stage extraction of dissolved soils (with the help of a pre spray and dwell time) in the carpet is the main goal of a carpet cleaning technician.  This can be achieved by a variety of methods; not only steam.  Steam gives the  best rinse but not necessarily the best appearance.  That is why many of us like Mr. Steamer when doing restaurants for instance will bonnet and steam.  I have tried and I'm really amazed and impressed by OP cleaning in a variety of situations.  But that is another discussion altogether.

Drimaster does shoot out the water in a sheet but this does not imply that it is not pentrating the surface.  Try throwing a sheet of water on the carpet at 500 psi with 360 passes per minute and feel for yourself if only the "tips" of the carpet are wet.  Do you know how close the solution slots are to the carpet?  They are almost touching the carpet.  500 psi from that close is not just wetting the 'tips'; impossible.

When trying to dry carpet there is a delicate balance between forming a tight seal and allowing space for air flow which in turn aids in suction.  The Drimaster DOES form a tight seal (not to the point of restricting air flow). We all know what happens you angle your wand wrong and do not get a tight seal; you get less suction.  Maybe we should all angle our wands 45 degrees when cleaning carpets to allow air and thus sacrificing a tight seal. 

My whole point about liking the drimaster was that it is easier on the body and is CONSTANTLY CLEANING.  I also like it because it hits the carpet fibre from all directions due to its rotation.   A wand cannot achieve this.  At no point did I want to get into a head to head which would allow you to find another way to plug your glides and their amazing drying time (supposedly).  If the material you use is slippery enough and durable then the ease of moving the wand back and forth will be a welcome benefit to some.  I will not argue with you on that issue. 

My understanding was that you sold your 'thriving' carpet cleaning business.  Now I read in one post that you are getting 50cents/square foot and now in this post it has doubled to $1.00/square foot; which is it?  Enquiring minds want to know!

Ken, I know you are trying to make a buck just like the rest of us and I admire your perseverance.  The best form of advertising for you and your products would be for many of your customers to come forth and say they have achieved 1 hr drying times using steam with your glide.  Have not seen it happen on any of the forums.  Another word of advice,  why don't you focus on the reduced labour needed to operate the glide and that improved drying over a regular wand is achieved.

Waiting to hear your next infomercial response.

If you know what is good for you get it dry as quickly as possible
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Grand Potentate
Grand Potentate

SGK

Joined: 17/March/2004
Location: Canada
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superglide Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/September/2004 at 10:09pm
Mr Steamer. What kind of wand do you use?
Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs.
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True Patriot
True Patriot

Only in the GTA

Joined: 03/March/2004
Location: Canada
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MR. STEAMER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/September/2004 at 10:02pm

no I typed Teflon.... doug is a dirty little man

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