Big TM's...Who is really funding the HR suit??????

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   This question was posted on the ICS board. I can't answer it over there, so I post it here so I can give my reply to this important question. I know the answer to the second part of the Question, but can not release it here, yet............I will have to keep that secret a little while longer..............

How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ...
Posted By chris muetterties on 7/25/2006 at 7:14 PM 
With H/R trying to kill Greenglides ?

Lets face it with Greenglides being killed with laywers fee's both of the new acquisitions at H/M and Blueline will be unusable. Anyone will tell you a Vortex without a glide is a one job a day TM.

I wonder how it will be for Hydra Master building for HR/Chemdry then on the other hand HR killing the most important option for their new monster TM ?

When will the Big Guys step up and fight this BS from HR/Chemdry ? 

Answer: Never. Why? Cause they don't have to. Green glides may be closed down by HR playing this dispute out to make GG run out of money before they do, but we will still be here making the teflon glides to both those machines as we do now.. Nobody is closing us down, no matter what happens with that case.

First, a little back ground history to bring readers here up to date in what has transpired so far:

-in 1997 I invented SS Skids with holes in them to put on my RX20 to use with the Power-Dri System I invented to dry carpet in under 1 hr. It worked so well I was able to dry carpets in minutes. I sold these shoes to my carpet cleaning company, Aqua-Jet Carpet Cleaning, but did not sell them to the general cleaning community or apply for any patents on them.

-Fast forward to 1999. Harris Research applies for a US patent on RX20 shoes with holes in them. These shoes were designed and produced for them by Hydramaster Corp.Patent is granted less than 2 years later in 2001.These shoes are simular to mine, but have a different shape than mine. Mine are completely rounded, whereas the HR shoes are concave on the ends to extract more water from a larger surface area.

Fast forward to July 2003. I design wand glides in teflon(the Superglides) in the same design as the ones used in SS on the Power-Dri system. I put them on sale from my website on July 23/03. That was 3 years ago on Sunday just past. I know that I cannot patent them myself cause I know HR would fight the patent, and I know that I would run out of money trying long before they would so I have a different idea. I will sell the idea to Hydro-Force and collect a royalty on every one that sells. I figure that HF has enough money to get them patented dispite HR's objections and efforts.I was wrong.

Deal with HF gets done on Sept 19th, 2003. I am now under contract and show up at the 1st Connections show at the end of September to help with the promotion of the glides. This was to be the intro of them to many cleaners. A phone call to me on September 29th on the day before the show opens from HR tells me not to sell the glides or I and HF will be sued. The hundreds of glides ready for the show are pulled. HF lawyer thinks that it is too risky to go ahead with sales, so sales are in limbo.I cannot sell them to distributors myself cause of my contract, and no money is coming in because HF is not selling. I manage to get my contract cancelled on OCT 15,2003 while I am in Chicago at the ISSA show. I am now free to sell glides myself to whomever I choose, and HF is free to do the same..

November 2003. I redesign the glides from holes over to slots in an effort to stop HR from going to court over the glides.A few different designs are tried. Glide sales were going well until February 2004. At that time the distributors that I was selling to where offered low priced glides($23.97) made in Acetal matterial,by HF, but they were told that they were Teflon. Sales plunged and I received many cancelled orders, caused mine were being sold for $89.00 at that time.By the time they discovered that these cheap glides were not teflon the following month in March, it was too late. The distributors were sent letters from HR telling them that it was an infringement of their patent to sell any of these glides. Most dealers stopped selling glides as of March 31,2004, including HF.They were not willing to go to court and risk loosing the case.Greenie stops selling for me as of this date as well. My serious cash flow problems begin. Late deliveries, bad feedback from customers, and Aqua-Max closes down 3 months later(June 2004) because of the loses.My partners bail out, so I am forced to close down.

Fast Forward to November 2004. I am back in biz by now selling single slot UHMW glides with a single or double supports under Turboteck Supplies . This is my company 100%, unlike Aqua-Max where I only controlled 34% of the shares.HR is leaving me alone on these ones, cause I sent them samples to show them that their patent was NOT being infringed by these glides. They are selling resonably well, cause that is all there is on the market to choose from.Connections 2 gets started. Greenie and Lisa show up with 18 Teflon glides made for the Titanium wand. These have holes in them , and are easy to push.They sell out at the show for $199 each. $3500 in receipts, not bad! HR is also at the show. In fact, they are right next to the both where my glides were selling! Coincidence? I think not.After they see what type of glides Greenie is selling at the Vortex display outside and is on many of the other TM distributors wands, they get pretty mad.They go around telling distributors to take them off their wands cause they are infringing on their patent. Most comply, and take them off. All except Greenie and Lisa's wand. That stays on. I get my picture taken pushing it. lol

Green Glides is set up after that show, because of the demand from cleaners to sell teflon glides with holes for other wands as well.We switch back to teflon glides with holes as well to meet the demand .No one hears anything from HR till November of 2005. Lisa is convinced that they will not push the glides issue to court, and even if they do, she say she will take alot of money from them for interfering in their business. I know better. Inside sources from that company(HR) tell me that they are letting the damages accomulate so the judgement from winning is worth their while to persue. In November, I and Greenglides receives notice of the suit, as well as some of my distributors.The fight is still on going. HR is attempting to run down the cash reserves of Green Glides and win by attrition. That is their style. I am not allowing them to do this to me. I will still be here and will still be here regardless of whatever happens in this suit. I have an Ace that I can play if I need to. My glides were out before the HR patent application of 1999.By sending my proof of this to the USA patent office, the HR patent will either be disolved, or an exemption will be given. Either way, I get to sell my glides into the USA.  

 In the first case, if the patent is desolved, I get lots of competition selling glides. I do not want this. Prices would fall and most would make very little money on them. In the second instance, my exemption would mean that I would likely be the only one selling glides after this year. If that happened the market demand means that glide sales would be established permantly in the market for the next 13 years with no competition. But regardless of which of these scenarios happens, cleaners get to have glides.

Chris sometimes forgets that I am still selling them and will continue to do so.

So the short answer is, neither of these big companies needs to do anything. I have got it under control already. They just need to buy their glides from a different provider is all.And wait just a little bit longer. All this court action will be ending in the next 10 months, and the glide selling business will be a peaceful one after that.

Ken

Edited by Ken Harris - 26/July/2006 at 3:09pm

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Ken Harris Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grand Potentate Joined: 12/January/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1120	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken Harris Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Big TM's...Who is really funding the HR suit?????? Posted: 25/July/2006 at 8:41pm
	This question was posted on the ICS board. I can't answer it over there, so I post it here so I can give my reply to this important question. I know the answer to the second part of the Question, but can not release it here, yet............I will have to keep that secret a little while longer.............. How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By chris muetterties* on 7/25/2006 at 7:14 PM* With H/R trying to kill Greenglides ? Lets face it with Greenglides being killed with laywers fee's both of the new acquisitions at H/M and Blueline will be unusable. Anyone will tell you a Vortex without a glide is a one job a day TM. I wonder how it will be for Hydra Master building for HR/Chemdry then on the other hand HR killing the most important option for their new monster TM ? When will the Big Guys step up and fight this BS from HR/Chemdry ? Answer: Never. Why? Cause they don't have to. Green glides may be closed down by HR playing this dispute out to make GG run out of money before they do, but we will still be here making the teflon glides to both those machines as we do now.. Nobody is closing us down, no matter what happens with that case. First, a little back ground history to bring readers here up to date in what has transpired so far: -in 1997 I invented SS Skids with holes in them to put on my RX20 to use with the Power-Dri System I invented to dry carpet in under 1 hr. It worked so well I was able to dry carpets in minutes. I sold these shoes to my carpet cleaning company, Aqua-Jet Carpet Cleaning, but did not sell them to the general cleaning community or apply for any patents on them. -Fast forward to 1999. Harris Research applies for a US patent on RX20 shoes with holes in them. These shoes were designed and produced for them by Hydramaster Corp.Patent is granted less than 2 years later in 2001.These shoes are simular to mine, but have a different shape than mine. Mine are completely rounded, whereas the HR shoes are concave on the ends to extract more water from a larger surface area. Fast forward to July 2003. I design wand glides in teflon(the Superglides) in the same design as the ones used in SS on the Power-Dri system. I put them on sale from my website on July 23/03. That was 3 years ago on Sunday just past. I know that I cannot patent them myself cause I know HR would fight the patent, and I know that I would run out of money trying long before they would so I have a different idea. I will sell the idea to Hydro-Force and collect a royalty on every one that sells. I figure that HF has enough money to get them patented dispite HR's objections and efforts.I was wrong. Deal with HF gets done on Sept 19th, 2003. I am now under contract and show up at the 1st Connections show at the end of September to help with the promotion of the glides. This was to be the intro of them to many cleaners. A phone call to me on September 29th on the day before the show opens from HR tells me not to sell the glides or I and HF will be sued. The hundreds of glides ready for the show are pulled. HF lawyer thinks that it is too risky to go ahead with sales, so sales are in limbo.I cannot sell them to distributors myself cause of my contract, and no money is coming in because HF is not selling. I manage to get my contract cancelled on OCT 15,2003 while I am in Chicago at the ISSA show. I am now free to sell glides myself to whomever I choose, and HF is free to do the same.. November 2003. I redesign the glides from holes over to slots in an effort to stop HR from going to court over the glides.A few different designs are tried. Glide sales were going well until February 2004. At that time the distributors that I was selling to where offered low priced glides($23.97) made in Acetal matterial,by HF, but they were told that they were Teflon. Sales plunged and I received many cancelled orders, caused mine were being sold for $89.00 at that time.By the time they discovered that these cheap glides were not teflon the following month in March, it was too late. The distributors were sent letters from HR telling them that it was an infringement of their patent to sell any of these glides. Most dealers stopped selling glides as of March 31,2004, including HF.They were not willing to go to court and risk loosing the case.Greenie stops selling for me as of this date as well. My serious cash flow problems begin. Late deliveries, bad feedback from customers, and Aqua-Max closes down 3 months later(June 2004) because of the loses.My partners bail out, so I am forced to close down. Fast Forward to November 2004. I am back in biz by now selling single slot UHMW glides with a single or double supports under Turboteck Supplies . This is my company 100%, unlike Aqua-Max where I only controlled 34% of the shares.HR is leaving me alone on these ones, cause I sent them samples to show them that their patent was NOT being infringed by these glides. They are selling resonably well, cause that is all there is on the market to choose from.Connections 2 gets started. Greenie and Lisa show up with 18 Teflon glides made for the Titanium wand. These have holes in them , and are easy to push.They sell out at the show for $199 each. $3500 in receipts, not bad! HR is also at the show. In fact, they are right next to the both where my glides were selling! Coincidence? I think not.After they see what type of glides Greenie is selling at the Vortex display outside and is on many of the other TM distributors wands, they get pretty mad.They go around telling distributors to take them off their wands cause they are infringing on their patent. Most comply, and take them off. All except Greenie and Lisa's wand. That stays on. I get my picture taken pushing it. lol Green Glides is set up after that show, because of the demand from cleaners to sell teflon glides with holes for other wands as well.We switch back to teflon glides with holes as well to meet the demand .No one hears anything from HR till November of 2005. Lisa is convinced that they will not push the glides issue to court, and even if they do, she say she will take alot of money from them for interfering in their business. I know better. Inside sources from that company(HR) tell me that they are letting the damages accomulate so the judgement from winning is worth their while to persue. In November, I and Greenglides receives notice of the suit, as well as some of my distributors.The fight is still on going. HR is attempting to run down the cash reserves of Green Glides and win by attrition. That is their style. I am not allowing them to do this to me. I will still be here and will still be here regardless of whatever happens in this suit. I have an Ace that I can play if I need to. My glides were out before the HR patent application of 1999.By sending my proof of this to the USA patent office, the HR patent will either be disolved, or an exemption will be given. Either way, I get to sell my glides into the USA. In the first case, if the patent is desolved, I get lots of competition selling glides. I do not want this. Prices would fall and most would make very little money on them. In the second instance, my exemption would mean that I would likely be the only one selling glides after this year. If that happened the market demand means that glide sales would be established permantly in the market for the next 13 years with no competition. But regardless of which of these scenarios happens, cleaners get to have glides. Chris sometimes forgets that I am still selling them and will continue to do so. So the short answer is, neither of these big companies needs to do anything. I have got it under control already. They just need to buy their glides from a different provider is all.And wait just a little bit longer. All this court action will be ending in the next 10 months, and the glide selling business will be a peaceful one after that. Ken Edited by Ken Harris - 26/July/2006 at 3:09pm

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Ninja-wand Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Journeyman Joined: 03/June/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 427	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ninja-wand Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26/July/2006 at 1:29am
	Thanks for the insight Ken. Very interesting.
	I'll make you TAP OUT!!!

Ken Harris Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grand Potentate Joined: 12/January/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1120	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken Harris Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26/July/2006 at 1:31pm
	And here is the rest of the comments.................. I've often thought about the same thing, Chris. If HR wins, the industry loses. I'm extremely disappointed that the bigger names in our industry have sat back and watched 2 brave individuals fight for the right to sell a piece of teflon that in no way infringes HR's copyright (there are TONS of prior art), yet helps every user who's tried one. (except Jimmy) Seriously, it's a huge disappointment to see Lisa and Jeff struggle so hard to fight on their own with the benefit of so many at risk. Eat my words, you big hairy manufacturers and distributors. If Lisa and Jeff lose this war, it'll be YOUR customers that suffer. It'll be your customers that ask why you let them down. Imagine a world without glides - it's nearing. Do the right thing and support them NOW. Time is definitely of the essence. Think of the positive PR you'd receive. Think how your customers will be even more dedicated towards your success because you helped them do their job - much easier and better than without glides. Greenglides and partners win and the industry wins. HR wins and the industry loses. Scott Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Ken Levens* on 7/25/2006 at 7:32 PM* HR has been doing this for over 20 years. It is what they do best...drag out a fight until the little guy has no more cash to fight with. So they win by default. Ask Jeff & Reita Ebberts about fighting with HRI...never ending and very costly...deepest pockets always wins in the end. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong in this great country...it only matters if you have the MONEY to prove that you're right. Sad but true. �� KL Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By shagmaster #1* on 7/25/2006 at 7:38 PM* how can we help,I dont believe anyone should be able to push the little man out of buissness,thats what this industry is all about,not to mention Greenie has probbly helped all of us at one time or another Clint Denton Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Robert Allen* on 7/25/2006 at 8:36 PM* tell us who owns Harris Research and lets contact them. I hate when big business pulls this stuff. I've been through my battles and I'm not done yet. So someone post up this info on HR asap!!! Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By greateagle* on 7/25/2006 at 9:16 PM* Are we really sure that HR is the one fronting the money for the lawsuit? A few years ago an un-named corporation was making a payoff to a certain manufacturer so they would arbitrarily enforce their patents against the competitors of the un-named corporation. The private payoff in effect gave them exclusivity on the product even though they themselves were infringing on the manufacturers patent without a legal licensing agreement. If this kind of behavior has happened in the past it can happen again. What is the motive for the lawsuit? HR is not financially affected by the sale of glides to independent cleaners because they do not distribute to independent cleaners. There is little to gain for them in pursuing a lawsuit. Yes they might win a judgement but the chances of ever collecting money from a smaller company is very slim and it would not make sense to risk good liquid capital on legal expenses where they have a reasonable chance of losing. Could someone else in this industry other then HR have more to gain from exclusive distribution of glides to independent cleaners? If so would they be willing to pay HR the necessary legal funds to run off the little guys? Just a few thoughts...... Regards, Ben Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By steve frasier* on 7/25/2006 at 9:27 PM* but what if hydra master started selling the aerotech Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Jeff Ellis* on 7/25/2006 at 10:20 PM* Hmm interesting point Ben. Interlink? Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Waldo* on 7/25/2006 at 10:50 PM* Ken Harris? Golden Boy Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Noble* on 7/26/2006 at 12:09 AM* Is anyone keeping up on the H/R lawsuit? Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Eric Scofield* on 7/26/2006 at 12:20 AM* I bet the boys at the Butler corporation are rolling on the floor, Everyone sleeping with one and other. How many homes has the V boy lived in? How about his twin brother Areo??? Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Olli Baba* on 7/26/2006 at 4:49 AM* Can't Greenie and Lisa give us a hint as to what's going on? And perhaps some suggestions as to how we can help? Do I need to start stocking up on enough Greenglides to last me 20 years? Re: How will H/M & Blueline sell Monster T/M's ... Posted By Gary R. Heaock** on 7/26/2006 at 1:06 PM* The REAL problem is bad design by wand manufacturers. Glides are the answer to the real problem's symptoms. If wand manufacturers made wands that were as easy to stroke as the bad design wands with a glide, the real problem would be solved. But as long as wand manufacturers make bad design wands, the problem will continue. What I want to know is- why won't wand manufacturers at least test their wands for ease of stroke before selling them? Gary

Ken Harris Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grand Potentate Joined: 12/January/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1120	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken Harris Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26/July/2006 at 3:20pm
	Yes, it is true. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG WHEN YOU GO TO COURT IN THE USA OVER A PATENT DISPUTE. IT ONLY COUNTS IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO STAY IN THE GAME UNTIL YOU CAN PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!! If you don't have the money to go the distance there with your deep pocket adversery, you are wasting your time and money.I was told a long time ago that you never patent anything unless there is a minimum $1 Million in sales potential from it, and even then don't do it unless you are prepared to spend another million defending it in the courts from those that will try to take it away from you, or will claim they had it first. Smart advice to listen to.

Ken Harris Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grand Potentate Joined: 12/January/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1120	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken Harris Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27/July/2006 at 1:02am


dennis_is_ok Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Carpet Cleaning Specialist Joined: 02/August/2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 460	Post Options Post Reply Quote dennis_is_ok Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27/July/2006 at 10:34pm
	do you sell lips? i ordered some from

Dennis Conner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List SGK Basher Joined: 11/October/2004 Status: Offline Points: 640	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dennis Conner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27/July/2006 at 11:25pm
	He sells things and doesn't deliver them...you have been warned. Also, there are a numbr of lies, or at the very least inconsistancies in kennie's story above.

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Big TM's...Who is really funding the HR suit??????