The role of Lift in Your TM System
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Category: Carpet Cleaners Discussion
Forum Name: Truck Mount Carpet Steam Cleaning Machines & Equipment
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URL: https://www.kleenkuip.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3097
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Topic: The role of Lift in Your TM System
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Subject: The role of Lift in Your TM System
Date Posted: 10/November/2006 at 11:26pm
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One of the better articles I posted in 2001, all the principals involved then have not changed..........
Lift determines how much CFM your wand will flow! Posted By Ken Harris on 11/4/2001 at 3:59 AM While I was answering a post yesterday,it occured to me that most here do not understand the relationship that your TM's air flow(CFM's) and your wands ability to translate that into a clean and dry carpet have in the real world of cleaning. I will explain this in detail to make the subject more understandable. First lets take a typical set-up as a good example of a real world situation. The 4M blower is probably the most common one out there so we will examine its air flow characteristics. This blower will usually put out about 320 cfm @ 14" HG(a typical setting) when turned at the usual 3000 rpm. This would be measured at the blower outlet. By the time system losses in the vacuum tank are deducted that number will be reduced to about 300 cfm or so. Add another 100 ft of 2" hose with a 1.5"- 10 ft whip hose and that flow is down to about 250 cfm. Still sounds pretty good,but what happens when a wand is added and the lips of that wand are put down on damp plush carpet. Your airflow is cut in half! The wand/carpet interface is such an obstacle to air flow that nothing else in the airflow system comes close. What you can do about it is what the rest of this article is about. After all, 125 cfm doesn't sound too impressive when you started off with 320, does it? The role of Lift What is lift in the context of carpet cleaning anyway? Well look at it this way; we all rely on the 30" HG of air pressure that surrounds us to force the air,water and soil into our wands when they are on the carpet cleaning. This is accomplished by dropping the pressure in the wand and hose to a low enough level that the higher air pressure outside the wand will cause air to move inside it. The greater the differential in those pressures the greater the lift that system has. As a simple example of this lets say that your system operates with the vacuum at 10"Hg. This means that the pressure inside the wand at the lips is really at 20"HG(30"HG- 20"HG= 10"HG)The guage is really measuring the amount of pressure drop from the normal outside pressure(30"HG). Air always flows from high to low pressure and the greater that difference is the faster and more that volume(CFM) of air movement that will be.When the wand is on the carpet cleaning the Wand/Carpet interface is a very hard blockage to get by so maybe only 125 cfm from your original 250 cfm available to go into the wand can make it thru there. If the lift of the system is increased to 15"HG instead of 10"HGwhat do you think will happen? Now there is 15"HG difference between the air pressure inside the wand and the air pressure outside. More air will now push past the wand carpet interface and in doing so the volume of the air(CFM) will increase too.The cfm may be up to 150 now which will increase your ability to clean that carpet better(especially heavily soiled ones),and the increase in usable cfm's will definately dry that carpet better.By getting your system to operate at 15"HG you have improved your real cfm flow capability by 20%(150cfm/125 cfm). This is why all 4M blowers are not created equal! Some will operate at higher levels of lift than others. The 4MP blower will operate at 16"HG all day long and allow you to run long hose runs when you need to while delivering excellant cleaning results because of its higher "real" cfm capability. A Roots 47 blower run at its normal lift setting of 12"HG wont be as effective at letting those extra CFM's thru your wand. Bottom line here is this: The vacuum system that can create the greatest lift numbers at the wand/carpet interface is really the one that will move the greatest amount of air(CFM)into your vacuum system and dry the carpet the fastest; all other factors being equal. Thanks, Ken Harris Turboteck Supplies ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Replies:
Posted By: John L
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 4:36pm
A #4blower you say = 300cfm's. Well blow me down, I should have bought another Recoil which states in the ad it has 300cfm's instead of my TM......lol  Someone is full of it.....................
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Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 6:33pm
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A #4blower you say = 300cfm's. Well blow me down, I should have bought another Recoil which states in the ad it has 300cfm's instead of my TM......lol
Not comparing apples to apples when you do that John. Portable machines advertise their CFM production in a different way than Positive Displacement blowers do.A blower can deliver most(over 90%)of it's cfm against RESISTANCE. This means that it can deliver 300 cfms even at 15"HG lift showing at the truck. The 300 cfm figure that is advertised with the Recoil or any other machine that has 3 vacuum motors is derived by simplely adding up the maximum that each motor is capable of delivering(100 cfm)when operated with NO RESISTANCE. Thus 100 cfm X 3 =300 cfm. But a centrifugal vacuum operated at 90% of its maximum resistance(such as cleaning a carpet)loses 80 to 85% of its cfm output because of a thing called SLIP. This means you only get 15 to 20 cfm from each motor once the resistance of each one in parallel reachs 100"WL. Thus the portable is only good for 45 to 60 cfm under use conditions.One that I tested in California tested at 49 cfm so this works pretty close to that. Now you know why most people buy TMS. The positive blowers are much more powerful under use conditions. Does this mean someone gave you mis-leading info? No, it just means that you did not make sure you looked deep enough for the facts before reaching your wrong conclusion is all. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 7:17pm
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Now this is a good topic....If true I learned something....post one at a time |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 7:29pm
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Thanks Steamer. I agree. Only a maximum of one extra technical post a day so readers can keep up. I hope that is not too fast? ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 8:05pm
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To bad clean colds don't come with a positive dissplacement blower? I think cmaster has changed a few since I came here? The only positive thing is they don't last? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 8:47pm
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All blowers are positive displacement, Doug. If you are referring to Cleancos when you say colds, then you should know that the standard blower in them is a Roots 45. That blower is rated at 320 cfm at 3000 rpm, but Cleancos do not spin them that fast. They use a pulley system that multiples the engine speed by 1.5 X to reach the blower speed. So the 1600 rpms that they get set for gives you a blower turning at only 2400 rpm.
This is what happens to cfm: 320 cfm X 2400rpm/3000 rpm = 256 cfm This also reduces the heat output as well, thus earning the name Cleancold. Most cannot get to 200 degrees at the truck that I have seen unless it is a Summer day. I fixed that problem. If you adjust the set rpm up to 1900 rpm setpoint, they will go up to about 220 degrees on a 20 degree day. They are not Cleancolds anymore. This is what happens to cfms: 320 cfm X 2850 rpm/3000 rpm = 304 cfm The extra 50 cfms you get will dry carpet at least 1 hour faster than before. The cost? Maybe $1/hr more for gas. If you are under Cleanco's warrantee, don't make this adjustment yourself though.Kleen Kuip knows how to do this, and they can tell you if your warrantee is effected if you do. If you are off warrantee like I am, then you do not have much to lose, and lots of performance to gain IMO. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Hammy
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 9:03pm
Steamer did you read that? ------------- Could somebody just clean my carpets! |
Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 9:29pm
I've changed so many, I can do it blindfolded
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doug wrote:Posted By: Hammy
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 9:32pm
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Cmaster; why have you gone through so many blowers?? ------------- Could somebody just clean my carpets! |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 9:34pm
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Sucking up squirels? ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Hammy
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 9:38pm
That would explain it. ------------- Could somebody just clean my carpets! |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 10:10pm
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3000 rpm is toooo fast...kills the engine
2000 rpm max.....actually cmaster suggested I set it at 1600 rpm...seems to work fine and burns way less gas
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Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 10:27pm
Steamer: That is the blower speed, not the engine speed. Blowers are designed to run up to 3600 rpm with no problems. The Sutorbuilt 45 blowers in Dougs performers run at 3000 rpms all day if he wants them to.Read more closely: 1900 rpm setting on the ENGINE gives you a 2850 rpm speed on the BLOWER. lol My Cleanco was set at 1900 rpm when I purchased it 10 years ago and I can guarantee it runs better than yours because of it. Much hotter too. Gives me 225 degrees at the machine even before I kick in the Superheater. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 10:56pm
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Superheater means pug in the other kettle?? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 11/November/2006 at 11:03pm
Nope. That is the post heater I designed 10 years ago to heat the solution temp with the blower exhaust. Cleanco thought it would not work, so I took the idea to White Magic who then used the idea to make the Vulcan heater that they now sell. After Cleanco saw that the idea really worked, they developed their own post heater themselves which they are now selling. It allows any PTO driven machine to put out temps of up to 240 degrees on a continous basis.Another of my good ideas copied by others. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 12:25am
I was told that the Cleanco is John's fron hotheatexchangers.com.
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Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 12:26am
Some flaws in Cleanco's Compact design
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Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 1:45am
No flaws in mine, and mine was the 7th one built. 10 years of trouble free performance. You must have got a lemon that got built on a Monday.  ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 10:29am
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Yea but it hasn't done anything in the last 10 years??? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 11:07am
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Ken I thought that it wasn't your business it was you nephews??? send us some pics
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Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 2:05pm
It only has 10 hours on it
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Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 2:15pm
| and 3 times of that was break time |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 2:40pm
I ended up getting back majority control of it when they could not keep up the payments. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: Hammy
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 3:01pm
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That sounds familiar ------------- Could somebody just clean my carpets! |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 4:27pm
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The REPO MAN!!!! ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Hammy
Date Posted: 12/November/2006 at 6:06pm
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The DOG! ------------- Could somebody just clean my carpets! |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 8:23am
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why couldn't they keep up?????
and where are the pics???
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Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 1:00pm
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They are carpet cleaners, not businessmen.
I do not publish pictures of my 3 working TMs anymore. The amount of fans I have out there has resulted in smashed windshields, slashed tires, pulled heater cords in winter and bomb attempts in the past because of it, so that side of my business is off limits.All this has cost me thousands of dollars in the past by me being too open. I can live with some deranged people out there wanting to twist my nipple(s), but I will not help them injure my employees or wreck the one part of my business that brings me profits by identifing what to look for. I am a popular guy? ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 1:53pm
| you need protection |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 2:10pm
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I can't afford DOG yet till I got all the glide market back? ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 3:16pm
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So what the hell have you been eating then?? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: Superglide Ken
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 3:22pm
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Tofu. It is the reason I was able to drop 40 lbs. Not a pure vegetarian mind you, but about 95% of what I eat is now that way. I will only eat meat when at a dinner where I cannot get a non-meat protein. ------------- Inventor of the Teflon Wand Glide and the Turboteck Rotary Air Duct Cleaners for TMs. |
Posted By: cmaster
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 3:45pm
Mikey really rubbed off on you 
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Posted By: Hammy
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 3:53pm
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Ones enough! ------------- Could somebody just clean my carpets! |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 9:22pm
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Don't you mean Toe Food?? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: thermedix
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 9:26pm
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Do you guys preheat your supply water and hp lines? It takes about a minute and works great, just before a job I run the tm with the hp line dumping back into the supply tank, it warms up the hp lines so your not cleaning with cold water for the first 5 minutes and preheats the supply water getting a few more degrees out of it.. ------------- It`s not how far you fall...it`s how high you bounce back up... |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 9:29pm
| prochem has a rad that the unloader is attached to....it pre-heats it self |
Posted By: doug
Date Posted: 13/November/2006 at 9:32pm
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That has got to be the biggest waist of time and energy I have read about on this bored? ------------- Just My opinion |
Posted By: MR. STEAMER
Date Posted: 14/November/2006 at 8:50pm
| different stokes for different folks |
Posted By: jtuseo
Date Posted: 14/November/2006 at 9:14pm
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Live it. Love it. Learn it. Lust it. ------------- WWW.PREFERREDCARPETCLEANING.COM |